Apple iMac 24in - 2009 Edition Comments

Sorry but the value just isn't an 8. More like 5 again.

£1200 for a computer and what can it actually do? It has a 9400M graphics card, no integrated memory, therefore no (decent) games.

What can this actually do that the mac mini cant? An additional £700 for some more memory, a faster CPU, a screen & a mouse and keyboard, plus a hard disk upgrade.

Nothing above actually makes it a must have, a mac mini is going to be plenty fast enough for anything that you might want to use this for.

I really don't understand why anybody would buy this over the mac mini!

It's still not too late to remove the blasphemous comment, that this is a PC before the Apple crowd show up.

Have to say, I almost got this over my Mac mini but didn't have the money or the space for it. It also stands up quite well price-wise to other Core 2 Duo All-in-ones like the Dell XPS One.

Anyway, two favourable Apple reviews in the space of two days - soon TR will be accused of having an Apple bias (to add to its Panasonic one) :)

i'll be damned if that keyboard didn't come straight from a macbook.

@xenos - value score is probably compared to other 24 inch all in ones. fair comparison, if you ask me.

Andy - can you please confirm this value score is judged only against other Macs (as Hugo carefully explained in his Mac Mini review commentary)? Many thanks.

How can the overall score be a 9 when all the bits that really matter (features, performance and value) are all 8?

Take that HP!
Take that Dell!
Take that PC Funboys
and Take that budget PC People

who else wants some:P

@Ed - out of interest, how did you reach that £900 for a PC? I reckon it could be done much more cheaply:

* CPU - £100 (and that's for a 2.8GHz Wolfdale - AFAIK 2.66GHz C2Ds can't be bought any more)
* Motherboard - £70
* GPU - £35
* RAM - £35
* Case & PSU - £70
* HDD - £50
* OS - £85 (Vista Home Premium 64-bit OEM)

That lot comes to £445. You can get a 24 inch LCD for under £180 so you'd be going well beyond that to hit £900 overall.

Ooooo. Looks like another PC v Mac fanboi war is about to break out.

I'll go get my popcorn ....... :)

Andy, many thanks for the confirmation that the value score is compared to other manufacturers - I think that's exactly the right approach. (By the way, I think your review is excellent!)

Still leaves me confused by Hugo's Mac Mini review - shouldn't TR/Chief Editor adjust Hugo's value score on that review to reflect a score vs other manufacturers as well (and not just other Macs)...? Anyway, no biggie.

Good review. The importance of the OS is not to be underestimated and contributes significantly to the efficiency/responsiveness of the end-product.

Case? CASE? Are you mad? Who wants a case when you can have NO case. This is all in the monitor, looks stunning, and now I should buy a case?

I don't know what brand of drive Apple uses, so a direct comparison is tough, but you can get a 640 GB Hitachi drive for £47.89 from scan (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/640GB-HGST-(IBM-Hitachi)-SATA-3Gb-s-7200-rpm-16MB-Cache). Point taken re DDR3 - I was looking at DDR2 boards and matching RAM on the basis that there is little proven benefit as yet to DDR3. You could also save by taking a motherboard with integrated graphics, but I factored in a cheap discrete Nvidia GPU.

I wasn't criticising the value score - I think the design and integration of the iMac (+OSX) justifies the premium over an equally specced PC, so it is reasonable value if it fits your needs. I was just wondering where your £900 came from.

Out of interest which 24 inch monitors would you consider "decent" enough to compete with the iMac?

Ed: "That's why I said a decent 24inch monitor. You're looking at £400+ for that alone."

So it's an IPS-panel then? Because if it's a TN-panel as with the 20" version, that's not worth 400 GBP by a long shot -- you can get those for 200 GBP.

I want one. Sick of Vista.

@Ed - When I decide to change my PC I'm still going to have my BenQ FP241W sitting on my desk, something which you guys yourselves gave 10/10 for in every category.

Having to pass on the ENTIRE pc when you want one that can play a game is just a bit stupid tbh.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/review/2006/09/13/BenQ-FP241W-24in-Widescreen-Monitor/p1

And that cost me £320 delivered, brand new with dead pixel guarantee! Hearty S-PVA panel too.

(Seriously buy it now its SO DAMN GOOD)

@Ohmz - Give Windows 7 a spin, build 7000. Make a dualboot to XP and OS X. Then laugh at having saved yourself over £2000 than buying a Mac with similar specs ;-)

BTW - I meant P-MVA not S-PVA. Its a fairly unique monitor as it has better motion performance (or as good as) TN but really good colours too.

Nothing like a good mac vs pc argument to make the work day pass.

Morsch: The 2008 version of the 24" had an H-IPS panel. I'd expect the current version to have something similar.

I agree with the review in general - as 24" all-in-ones go, this is quite keenly priced. You could get a very good tower system for a couple of hundred less, but all-in-ones are a different product market, in my opinion.

@ John McClean - You can't just add up the cost of the components used and expect Apple it cost the same amount - it's not a fair comparison. After all, where would their profit come from? Every single manufacturer will add costs on to a system over and above the sum of its parts (whether it be for included software, warranty manufacturing costs, or whatever), so saying you could buy a hard drive for this much, or a processor costs this much it irrelevant. Secondly, you wouldn't be able to build a computer that looks as good as this does, or with a footprint this small, even if you were an experienced system builder - you'd have to have an ugly, bulky box next to your monitor which, while it doesn't bother me, really puts some people off.

I actually can't believe I'm defending a Mac since I've always been, and proabably always will be, anti-Apple on principle.

@ basicasic - How's the popcorn? ;)

Hugo, many thanks for the better explanation or correcting my misinterpretation, whichever it may have been - it makes sense now.:)

Hugo - How on earth is this gen i-Mac good value? Correct me if I'm wrong but previously £1,149 would have bought you a 2.8GHz 24in with a 256MB dedicated graphics card. All they have done is increase the RAM and hard drive, both of which are dirt cheap to upgrade. I reckon it's a downgrade to the 9400M(good as it is for an integrated), and potentially a pretty noticable one at that. Yeah this one has more Ram(and faster DDR3) but at best they're about even although I personally would prefer the dedicated card from the last gen.
And c'mon, why not mention that if you really want your shiny new gorgeous i-Mac to be able to cope with heavy duty tasks(only really not suitable for serious 3-D stuff etc..), or you just happen to want the top-of-the-line model, then Apple are properly shafting you with this update.
The previous gen top model was a 3.06GHz 24in with 512MB graphics card. That was £1389.
New one? £1800. How is it better? More RAM and Hard Drive capacity. Seriously, Apple have lost the plot, and I gotta say, I am such an Apple fan, and will within the next two weeks, be upgrading from my i-Mac G5. I love their stuff, but their latest upgrades(and prices)are anything but good value.
Thank christ for refurbs.

I have a well documented dislike of Apple and Sony....But boy am I envious of some of their products design and looks!

Dell are doing well but more PC manufacturers need to start paying a lot more attention to detail on the design front. With their economies of scale, prices for a well designed system (like this Apple iMac) should come in a few hundred quid less that an equivalent Apple system.

It would also be nice to see more officially supported Window themes to make the UI prettier, a la Apple OSX. If you can't beat them (and you can't!) copy them :)

@lifethroughalens - I too have a thorough dislike of Apple but why envious of their design and looks. Looks crap to me.

@ruthless, you are kidding right? Dude, don't wanna see your living room then.

@Carl Abudephane - Couldn't agree more.

Recently spoke to an apple rep to see if I could haggle on the new mac mini, he tried to convince me to buy an iMac as i mentioned I might do a bit of video editing, I pointed out to him that the two base models had the same video card, and there was no way I could justify £1800 for occasional video editing over a £500 machine when I already have a monitor that works just fine.

My solution was to spend some time and improve my OS X dualboot. I now have properly working ethernet and CI and QE graphics on an ATI HD3870. SWEEEEEEEET.

Don't forget that in recent times the US/UK exchange rate has gone shitty for us Brits. Apple are a US based company so perhaps their new pricing takes into account the current exchange rate.

Not that I'm defending them...

@ ruthless. Are you serious? I think it's the best looking computer on the market today!

More fuel for the fire. LOL

@haim & @Ohmz - believe it or not, I am. Look, each to his own and all that but I think Apple products date very quickly. Their design is always predicated on a minimalism. Their current styling, as I've suggested in other comments, looks like someone from the 1970s vision of the 'technofuture'. People thought futurist buildings were great once - like tower blocks.

@Ohmz. Still doesn't mean that it's good looking... :D

i would rather not have a big white screen on my desk... but that's just me :D..

@ ruthless, and Skobbolop, I'd love to know what you guys think is better looking out there.

@ ruthless:

I'm sorry but...you MUST be blind! If they sold that chassis without an OS and with easy access to upgrade all the gubbins inside, i'd buy 2 in a heart beat.

(off topic - does anyone know if you can plug in a wireless 'real' mouse -left and right click jobby not the irritating Apple one- and get it working in OSX? - and No - I will never get used to not having a right click ;)

My case isn't an ugly grey box...

@ruthless: You're out of your mind if you think Apple computers don't stand the test of time, especially design wise. Look at a Mac Pro. The outside of that case has not changed in years, but it still looks better than just about every other full-size tower.

The iMac is the same way. The original, the eMac, the lamp iMac, the white iMacs -- they all still look good, and many of them are iconic designs.

Another thing to take into consideration when purchasing an iMac (or any Apple computer) is resale value. I have a white iMac from 2006, and the only things I have upgraded in it are the hard drive and RAM. I would have no trouble getting over $1,000 were I to sell this computer today. Show me a PC from 2006, even one with a 24" monitor, that is still worth $1,000.

@smc8788 - I've had to get another box! :)

@lifethroughalens: The "mighty mouse" actually does have a right and left click (and center and side), but I agree that it is terrible. Regular mice work just fine too, wireless or wired. I use an MX Revolution with USB Overdrive and it's fantastic.

@lifethroughalens - Yes but be prepared to use third party software for forward and back browser buttons. No idea which ones are actually compatible with OS X though.

Damn, again it has this superb keyboard and mouse. Just why all the separately sold PC keyboards/sets are all stuffed with additional unreasonable buttons, are enormous in size and are just wrong? :(

@Josh
Just out of interest what's the spec of your 3 year old $1000+ iMac?

The iMac is a very nice looking machine but personally if I wanted to save space I'd buy a notebook and if I wanted a proper PC I'd want an easily upgradeable tower.

I think it's unbeliveable that there's no video input. When the hardware becomes outdated you should still be able to use it as a monitor.

@Josh & Xenos: Cheers for the info - I currently use an MX Revolution too on my PC set-up so that's great news if I could use it on an iMac - GULP...I think I might be seriously considering a Mac...I must be on drugs or something :)

Weird month for me since I am on the verge of dumping Canon, after 10 years for my pro photography gear in favour of Nikon. Canon & PC to Nikon and Mac all in a month...it must be 'that' time in my life :o)

@ravmania: Nothing too high-end, but it's not bad. C2D @ 2.33GHz, 4GB DDR2 667 (only 3GB supported by this chipset, though), 1TB HDD @ 7200RPM, 7300GT 128MB (discrete), bluetooth, wireless n, etc. with Leopard and iLife '08.

@mjaffk : I have a 2008 iMac 24in 3.06GB / 1TB machine - I think its just fantastic. The wireless mouse I found to be too heavy, the wired mouse can't be properly cleaned inside, therefore has been replaced (free) twice now, but I knew that from Apple's UK store comments for these mice. In future I'll consider lifethroughalens' MX Revolution mouse. Mouse aside, its still an incredible looking machine, and plenty powerful enough for intensive Photoshop work, amateur video, etc.

@Carl Abudephane - £1389? More like £1700 for the previous model, at least the 1TB one I bought, £1850 with the three year support, which really is first class, well worth it.

@John McLean - take it you have factored in only free anti-virus, you certainly haven't factored in all your time making those components work. I don't have that time, nor space for the spaghetti. What's your time worth?

Jim

@Jim Fulton - No Jim, you are definitely mistaken. The last gen top-of-the-line standard spec i-Mac was a 24in 3.06GHz model. Yes it had a 500GB Hard Drive and 2GB RAM, but both are very inexpensive to up to 4GB and 1TB and that machine cost £1389 new and £1149 on the refurb store when it appears currently. Apple must positively foam at the mouth each and every time they sell one of the new 'updated' models at £1800.
A year passes, they double the RAM and hard drive capacity and apart from the faster DDR3 RAM, AND THAT'S IT for the new updated model? And they increase the price by over £400????
And the current fave excuse of appalling exchange rate for sterling is irrelevant. That would only be a valid argument IF, when the exchange rate was heavily in our favour(as it was for a long, long time), Apple's prices reflected that. They never did.
No matter what way one approaches it, Hugo's comment that the last gen i-Mac was ridiculously overpriced and this gen is good value is simply wrong.

<Fyad> When I bought siemens cellphone, siemens sold its cellular section. When I bought yakumo screen, yakumo got bunkrupt. When I bought fujitsu-siemens laptop, siemens sold its share.
<Fyad> Just curious what to buy next...
<r_heart> apple
<hoobsta> Apple
<sailo> apple

;)

Carl Abudephane: It *is* the exchange rate. In the US, $1,499 used to buy you an entry-level 20-inch iMac. Now, the same $1,499 gets you an entry-level 24-inch iMac. That's definitely better value (especially given that it also upgrades the monitor from a TN panel to an H-IPS panel). It's only outside the US that prices have gone up quite sharply. What else can that be if not the exchange rate?

Speaking from experience.
I'm a mac user and a pro one at that, I've been making money and paying the bills for over 15 years using firstly Apple Macintosh and now 'mac' computers and I've enjoyed 99% of it.

I have a new 24" iMac with the 3.06ghz C2D, 1tb HD and the now infamous Radeon HD4850 graphics chip and aside from the Radeon issue which kept me from using it until the EFI patch was released I have to say it is stunning.

Design
From simply an industrial design POV the build has no competition in the current market. NONE, nothing from Sony's Vaio range or HP's TouchSmart comes even close, infact the closest rival from a built POV is something by VOODOO but that's to be expected for the £££'s they want for their kit. So in short, if you want a good looking PC this is it. Period.

Glossy Screen
OK, some people choose to bang on about this but look, I'm a graphics pro and I use this machine every day in a well lit room and I can't really see a problem. Yes it reflects more than a normal matt screen but because it is a very bright panel this kind of cancels it out to a degree. So, unless you are watching dark films or playing dark games on it in a bright room it shouldn't pose any problems really. Dissagree with this and you're either being pedantic or you use your shiny screen PC under a light and deserve everything you get. Apply common sense to where you use your PC and you'll be fine.

Price
OK, the apple crowd already know this and accept it. The PC crowd know this and don't. YOU WILL ALWAYS PAY A PREMIUM FOR SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN DESIGNED. Simple as that. I'm a designer and I charge money to design stuff, when I visit new clients that have had work done by people who like to think of themselves as designers but have no real experience and do it on the cheap the end result is always a worse, less effective design. Want something that looks good? then you have to pay for it.

Spec
People always bang on about this as well but really, when you take a close look at an apple machine and make a direct comparison between it and a Wintel box that offers the same spec (DDR3, a good FSB etc etc etc) they are either close or the apple is actually better value. I know this though personal experience as I have owned (and do own) both Macs and PCs. Also, you get a lot with the iMac (iLife) and for a similar suite of quality software for the PC you would be paying £100 up. But remember you can ALWAYS build something cheaper and more powerful, take a Westfield car, thrashes Ferraris and eats Porsches and no doubt they are awesome cars but I would rather drive a Porsche day in day out than a Westfield as you will spend more time on the road and less time tinkering in the garage.

Service & Support
Something that people tend not to factor into the price of any machine is how will you and it be looked after once you have it at home and something goes wrong. With a PC it's like getting blood out of a stone. With a Mac (and it's only happened once in the last 15 odd years!) it's actually quite a refreshing experience. The Radeon card on this machine didn't work till the EFI fix, I download it and it now works perfectly but I chose to complain to their Customer Relations dept. 1 phone call to a person who spoke perfectly understandable english, who had a nice manner about them and who at no time palmed the blame off onto me. Understood the issue, accepted that Apple had made a mistake and apologised and offered in way of compensation either vouchers or a new Shuffle to say sorry. Now THAT is customer relations. And to top it off an email afterwards asking me to tell them how the phone call wnet and if I was happy with the outcome. HOW MUCH IS THAT WORTH?

So, in short, the new iMac is a stunner. It takes a small step forward from the last gen and improves graphics, storage, speed and memory specs. the screen is beautiful for a mainstream non-pro screen (and I am colour conscious and hard to please). It's design is head and shoulders above it's nearest competition and the footprint is tiny. On top of this the machine is SILENT (or as near as pos) and when you tie this all up with OSX it's a wonder why people choose anything else.