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drdark

11:15 AM on 26 October, 2009

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Woohoo! Go get 'em, Nokia!

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Dan

1:52 PM on 26 October, 2009

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I'm probably being naive, but why do Apple see it as a bad thing that PC users want to run their OS X?

If I were running Uncle Steve's next team meeting I'd give the software division a pat on the back and tell the hardware division that they need to make further inroads...

Other than that - whats the biggie?

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Mo

1:56 PM on 26 October, 2009

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I am, as is everyone else, really interested in seeing where this ends up. One of two things: Apple come out unscathed, or with a giant dent in those record profits they have been bloating about (and a bad record), all is left to be seen.

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Cub

3:17 PM on 26 October, 2009

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From what I've read, Apple certainly should be paying Nokia their dues here. Apparently it's pretty much impossible to launch a mobile phone without encroaching on one of Nokia's many many many mobile related patents. Add to that the fact that Apple have got probably the savviest patent layers working the circuit in the States, this could be an interesting battle... If it ends up in court and Nokia lose, every other phone manufacturer could potentially stop paying those fees too, leaving Nokia grossly out of pocket. Apple have had a lot of patent battles in the past and more often than not, though not all the time, their lawyers are on the ball... They've probably already made the decision that they think they can win this one.

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Bluepork

3:37 PM on 26 October, 2009

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Dan,

The biggie is that while Apple control the whole hardware-OS-software ecosystem, they can guarantee that every consumer has the same (mostly) bug-free, seemless, joy-to-use experience. Once they start allowing millions of differing hardware configurations, then they will risk the problems that MS Windows has. Which is to say, it works great in the showroom, but once you get it home...

This is all very well, but it does also mean Apple can charge over the odds for the spec of their machines. Its a different philosophy, and I'm not sure which is best. What I am sure of is that if Apple keep picking up market share like they are, sooner or later, the competition authorities might get involved, so, as Mo says, it will be interesting to see where this ends up.

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farki80

7:39 PM on 26 October, 2009

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I am rooting behind Nokia in this. Apple frequently sues others as well in regards to patents, trademarks and copyrights, so they are just an equal target as the bloggers Apple loves to sue.

Go get them!

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Cub

8:14 AM on 27 October, 2009

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@farki80 - Seriously, you think Apple are the only company out there that seems to be constantly suing people? Suing over patent infringements is a way of life in the big tech companies, Nokia are no better or worse (well, technically, they probably are a little better or worse, but I'm generalising here...) than Apple, who are no better or worse then Sony, or Microsoft, or Yahoo, or <insert name of large tech company here>.

Root for Nokia because you think Apple are in the wrong, but don't root for them because you think Apple are meanies.

@BlueProk - Why would the Competition authorities go after Apple for creating an OS and Hardware that are designed to work perfectly together, but not go after Sony or Microsoft for creating hardware with strict licensing agreements surrounding them? Games consoles are more tied up than Macs are. Plus, you have the choice of installing Linux on a Mac... I'd love to be able to install the PS3 xCross (?) media bar on my PS2, not gonna sue Sony over it though.

You're right about the eco-system though, it's the way that everything works seamlessly together that makes the Mac so appealing to a growing number of people.

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Bluepork

9:37 AM on 27 October, 2009

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Cub,

I see your point.

I'm working on the observation that MS shipped IE with Windows and got into trouble over it. No different in principle to Apple shipping OS with Safari, or shipping the whole bundle together. So why would one situation garner the attention of the authorities and not the other? The only reason I can figure comes down to existing market share and consequent potential for market "abuse". There is no qualitative difference between the two situations.

I would guess that games consoles are different because MOST people wouldn't ever aspire to using them for anything other than their primary purposes, ie playing games etc

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Cub

10:50 AM on 27 October, 2009

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I think you're right, it is primarily down to market share, I would imagine that Microsoft are classed as holding the monopoly in their market and are therefore able to easily influence the applications that the majority use. Apple can barely claim 10% usage worldwide (not sure how accurate that figure is, but I've read that somewhere before) and are therefore not in a position to influence the majority...

A computer's primary purpose - arguably, this is only one example - is to do officey-stuff and browse the web. Apple provide everything you need to be able to do that, but you're free to change any application used should you wish. Yes, a PS3's primary purpose is to play games, Sony provide everything I need to be able to accomplish that, but why should I not be able to change the way I do that, were I to wish to. For the record, I don't, I think the OS on the PS3 is fantastic. But my point is still valid, I hope, Sony provide an ecosystem that is unchangeable, Apple provide one that is. Why is Apple that gets picked on?

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ffrankmccaffery

10:56 AM on 27 October, 2009

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@Cub - Do you want to extend your analogy further to television sets and hard disk recorders too? after all they too run on operating systems.

No arguements too implausible for macheads like you to bend in favour of your beloved Apple. Normally such zealotry is the preserve of those defending either an ideology or an article of faith and not another shameless abuse of a market position by a share-holder answerable corporation.

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Cub

12:09 PM on 27 October, 2009

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Well, no, quite frankly. That would be stupid.

The line between games consoles and computers is blurred in this generation and that's a perfectly fine example that I am by no means the first to use.

Re-read your comment and try to see how angry you sound. I'm sure I come across similarly on occasions but I'm at least rational in what I say where as your blind hatred of Apple comes across as far more zealous than anything I've ever said on these here comment threads.

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purephase

1:09 PM on 27 October, 2009

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@Cub

I thought the point was that apple don't get picked on? You pointed the reason why yourself - it's about market share. MS software controls pretty much every large corporations servers and systems - as well as most of the home computers, so lawmakers are keen to ensure that position isn't abused.

Apple isn't in a place to monopolise anything in computer terms - despite it's rapid growth it has a very small PC/server market share, so no one really cares whether they close their system off - except perhaps zealous mac haters.

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Jay4d0

1:21 PM on 27 October, 2009

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I'm behind nokia on this one as surely if there were holes in the patents then surely one of the very large tech companies would have already exploited it.

and cub you do sound like a massive apple fanboy spinning everything so it works in apples favor, I'm just saying

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ffrankmccaffery

1:53 PM on 27 October, 2009

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@cub - People are just waiting to install their recently bought copies of Windows 7 on their ps3's aren't they?

And you say your not a mac zealot? Well if you say so. Pretty much everyone of your comments on here have been reflexive defenses of Apple irrespective of whether their right or wrong.

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drdark

3:16 PM on 27 October, 2009

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Cub's an Apple fan, not "fanboy".

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Cub

3:40 PM on 27 October, 2009

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I have never denied being an Apple Fanboy, I've openly admitted it numerous times on this site. But just because I'm a fan of their products, and do keep in mind that I have criticised certain things of theirs, and praised (if that's not too strong a word) things that Microsoft and other "competitors" have done, that doesn't mean that everything that pours forth from my mouth is blind, fanboy, rhetoric.

@ffrank - That's only part of the point, previously you were able to install Linux on your PS3, I and many other people did. With the new Slim model though, Sony have stopped people doing that... There *is* a queue of people, and they are being halted in their tracks.

It's worth pointing out that I'm also accused of being a huge Sony fanboy... I've just blasphemed!

So yes, the majority of my comments on this site, on Apple based stories, are in defence of Apple. But the questions I ask having countered other people's points with actual researched, intelligent answers, sticking up for the "underdog" in the computing world (that's Apple, by the way) still, generally, go unanswered...

The funny thing here is, my first comment here said that Apple are probably in the wrong and that they should be paying Nokia...

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Cub

4:41 PM on 27 October, 2009

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Guess I kinda rained on your parade there DrDark!

It's a matter of semantics. I use the word fanboy because it's what I'm accused of, and, grammatically, it's correct (although "boy" is debatable!). I by no means match the conceived image of an internet fanboy though.

On the assumption there's no sarcasm hidden away there, thank you :)

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drdark

9:57 AM on 28 October, 2009

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@Cub: Ah, no worries. I wasn't being sarcastic. I meant the common viewpoint (at least that I have) on fanboys is that they stubbornly defend something with immature comments and badly researched points. These people are no fun to argue with.

However, I do love a good argument, when both sides make strong claims, and you sir are very good at it :).

Oh - back to the point: so I classed you simply as "fan". Although I could add the "boy" back if you prefer.

I know I wouldn't mind something to make me feel younger (although I'm not really that old, just feels that way sometimes).

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ffrankmccaffery

10:42 AM on 28 October, 2009

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@cub - if you have to resort to praising your own comments than surely even know your on to a loser. The loss of linux support on the ps3 has more to do with cost-cutting than any conspiracy to deny the odd hobbyist, one of whom oh so conveniently for the sake of this argument now includes you. Sony went out of its way to support linux with the earlier model and support is still available for those that wish to use the OtherOS option.

One of the first steps to recovery is to admit you have a problem and im glad your now aware that you do so i shouldnt lose faith and just keep on hanging in there - there is light at the end of that tunnel.

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Cub

12:46 PM on 28 October, 2009

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I hate having to lower myself, I really do, but it's either this or write an essay in response picking the poor guy to pieces...

If anybody wants a chuckle throw this into Google - ffrankmccaffery site:trustedreviews.com - and pop into the comments for the articles that come up. You won't read anything new, just re-hashes of what's already been said here but aimed towards, as far as I can tell, any company that's not Microsoft or one of their close associates... Google, Linux, Palm, Sony. Even the BBC and our beloved Dr Who get a mention!

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drdark

1:09 PM on 28 October, 2009

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Guys, please, come on. Shall I buy everyone an ice cream?

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