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xenos

5:58 AM on 30 December, 2009

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Apple will let it go on so long and then try to settle out of court, legally if they are breaking Nokias patents they are up shit creek and thats that?

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SRS

9:43 AM on 30 December, 2009

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I see that Nokia are entering the SCO phase of their company history: replace product development with whining, then sue everyone, lose, become irrelevant.

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Gav66

10:59 AM on 30 December, 2009

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If you can't beat Apple with decent products, distract them with law suits!

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kdot

11:52 AM on 30 December, 2009

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If they own the patent they own the patent. When did defending your property equate to being a whine?

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ChrisC

12:40 PM on 30 December, 2009

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@SRS

It's not whining - they are protecting what's legally theirs - nothing wrong with that.

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xbrumster

1:51 PM on 30 December, 2009

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anyone has any patents for netbooks?

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Luan Bach

2:11 PM on 30 December, 2009

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@SRS

There isn't a parallel with the SCO case. Nokia already has licensing agreements with other companies for their patents and supposely has been in negotiation with Apple for years. Since Apple refused to come to terms I guess the courts is a the next step in the negotiation process.

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Mo

2:14 PM on 30 December, 2009

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@SRS

Don't be childish, why don't you go back to the playground if you want to bring immaturity to the discussion. Jeez, what does Apple do to these people!

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philbot

2:20 PM on 30 December, 2009

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It is whining. They feel threatened because of the iPhones success and have now decided to file this lawsuit. Why now? Surely if there was any substance to their claims this would have happened years ago. Basically Nokia just produce an endless array of phones to keep people upgrading - no innovation required. What Apple have done is enter the market with a genuinely new product and the masses have responded by making it the most popular smartphone available.

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rav

2:32 PM on 30 December, 2009

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Have to love Apple's business practives. Lock out Plam from letting the Pre work with iTunes and then use Nokia's IP without licensing it. Swap out Apple for MS and there'd be uproar.

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Ohmz

2:51 PM on 30 December, 2009

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"Swap out Apple for MS and there'd be uproar."

Well said! It's funny to look at all these fanboys whining about Nokia, if it were MS there'd be high fives all around.

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Davey

2:52 PM on 30 December, 2009

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Think: Xerox.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIeSqEBGNHM&feature=related

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purephase

3:21 PM on 30 December, 2009

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This one reminds me of the Apple vs. Creative about the scroll wheell tech a few years back. I would imagine apple will pay out on this in some way - what they are banking on is that payout being miniscule in comparison to the revenues they are getting from infringing - and infringing they are. They seem to play quite a clever game where they use patents like they are a little start up no-one will notice, but then get out of it with high-end legal clout when it gets litigious. It's a dirty way to play, but you've got to admire it in a way.

Suppose it also helps that there are are fanboys like at least 1/3 of the posters above who seem to think that seeking financial compensation when another company steals your tech and makes money out of is "whining". You want to use it? License it like everyone else. Apple certainly enforce this from their end with prop headphones/approved idocs etc.

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kdot

3:31 PM on 30 December, 2009

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@Philbot: I doubt that someone at Nokia woke up today and said lets sue Apple, cases take time, no one wants to go to court because of the fees even if you win not to mention the time and i guess possible stock changes so there would have been discussions first. Not to mention all the paper work and evidence that needs to be collated. ALong with talking to their own lawyers to make sure they are correct to go ahead, etc etc. Not to mention Luan Bach not two posts before said, and I quote "...supposely has been in negotiation with Apple for years" now I dont have the time or inclination to check the validity but if you find it is inaccurate please post a link.

Also Nokia target the phone industry not a niche so of course they will release lots of phones and unlike the iPhone they are not necessary upgrades because you were an early adopter and talked yourself into buying a gimped product.

@rav: couldnt agree more. Are MS so bad now? Or does everyone just harbour hate from the 90's still.

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scotw

5:39 PM on 30 December, 2009

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Everyone seems to be assuming that Apple are guilty, this may simply be a ploy by Nokia to gain access to Apple's tech, rather than genuine infringement. I'd like to see more detail before I judge either way.

That said patents are far too easy to get these days, so someone almost always infringes someone else's patent, even if they knew nothing about it. Its a poor system that holds back progress and innovation.

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Sleeper

6:11 PM on 30 December, 2009

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I wish people would think before they write tripe about Nokia suing Apple because they currently have the top high end smartphone. Nokia raised this with Apple two years ago so that's just nonsense.

Fanboys of any stripe need to get out more or at least do a bit more research, preferrably not just on fan sites that are equally ignorant.

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Tim

7:26 PM on 30 December, 2009

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Calm down people.

This is business. Nokia has claims. A lot of companies have those. In todays world it's impossible to check if you're infringing on some patents. Yet few seem to regard this as a flaw of the system. I work at a very small electronics company and we've been sued three times. All three were completely without merit, but you know them trolls.

Anyway, Nokia calls Apple and says "You're infringing on patent 1234." - Apple's Legal Department looked at it. Apparently it's not crystal clear, they probably didn't outright copy something, otherwise they would have paid.

So Legal shrug their shoulders. Instead of paying a couple hundred million right away, Apple decided to take this to court. Not that expensive, they have a Legal Department anyways. At the very least, they get an early opinion by the judge after a couple of weeks who will tell them, how he sees things.

What Nokia is doing is typical PR. Like a boxer assuring us he will win in his next fight.

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mkaibear

8:25 PM on 30 December, 2009

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@scotw

>That said patents are far too easy to get these days

Oh dear, and your post was going so well... Patents are not easy to get, they require a lot of paperwork, the creation of a novel, inventive, and useful step, oh, and usually the services of a patent attorney to work together with the examiner to figure out what is and isn't allowed.

>Its (sic) a poor system that holds back progress and innovation

It's like Winston said about democracy - it's the worst system apart from all the other which have been tried. Creators have to have the right to profit from their creation - or what's the point in invention and innovation?

@Tim

>In todays (sic) world it's impossible to check if you're infringing on some patents.

No it's not! They publish them and everything! Patents are, by law, freely available once they've been granted. OK, you might not be able to check a patent if it's "in the system" and waiting to be granted - but if you've got an invention which hasn't been patented you need to patent it - if you release your product without patenting it, you won't ever get a patent for it - it's in the public domain.

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Rickysio

2:52 AM on 31 December, 2009

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So when Apple does it, it's divine justice, and 9000% justified, but when others do it to Apple, the beacon of morals and innovation (SURELY they won't copy! It's IMPOSSIBLE!!!), it's whining, and being a pain in the posterior, road block on the road of innovation, etc?

Gods, I *love* humanity - Our future is *bright*.

/sarcasm

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philbot

11:19 AM on 31 December, 2009

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@Rickyslo

correct!

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Tim

12:55 PM on 31 December, 2009

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@mkaibear

What I meant was, that there is such a plethora of patents out there - just try the Google patent search - that you will ALWAYS find a couple that look like they COULD be relating to your work. You can rarely be sure though. Now you could a) licence every single patent which might be applicable or b) not invent stuff anymore. Both have the same outcome for you. Or you could c) go ahead and see what happens.

BTW, I don't like the Apple Fanboys either, but becoming Apple Bashers is no solution. As I said, it's no sin for Apple to let it go to court and let a judge decide if the accusations hold true.

It's not as if Nokia has never been sued for copyright infringement...

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Carcharodon

1:06 PM on 31 December, 2009

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Apple already countersuing Nokia? - Claiming that they have also infringed on Apple patents with some of their recent smart-phones.

The whole mess, from what I understand, started a few years back when Nokia and Apple failed to thrash out a licence agreement because Apple claimed Nokia's demands were unfair in comparison with similar agreements Nokia had with other companies. To be honest though, this does seem like an act of desperation on Nokia's part to slow down the Apple juggernaut. Nokia are losing out in the most important growth sector of the mobile phone market and as yet have shown very little capability of being able to fight back.

kdot - "Are MS so bad now? Or does everyone just harbour hate from the 90's still."

Your kidding right? - MS have been sued twice in the last few months alone for patent infringement and were recently forced to close down a website when it was revealed the 3rd party MS had hired to create the site had stolen code.

The reality is all fanboys need to get their heads out of their backsides and realise this kind of behaviour is typical of most big companies, none of them are as pure as the driven snow, even if Google and Apple try to pretend otherwise, but MS still remain the undisputed masters of 'lets rip off of everyone else's ideas;' I shouldn't think anyone at MS has had an original thought in years.

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Cub

1:08 PM on 31 December, 2009

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@Rickyslo - Hi, would you do something here to prove either my, or your, point. Search this site and find just *one* individual, single comment, that suggests that the commenter in question believes that Apple never copies.

What you've done here is post one of those wonderfully sarcastic comments that is actually utter bullshit. No rational person thinks anything of the sort, but because you say it sarcastically, you believe it paints all fans of Apple kit as utter idiots and the company itself as fraudulent, uninnovative, and whiny.

The idea that "Apple never copies" is one of the many funny little diatribes created by those with blind hatred for the company. Apple didn't invent the idea of widgets and the dashboard. They didn't create Coverflow. They didn't start the MP3 business and they, and I want to emphasise this one in particular because nobody, *nobody*, believes it (although, you no doubt, believe, that we all believe it), Apple did not invent the idea of Cut'n'Paste on a mobile phone...

Regarding the story, if Apple are infringing, they should pay. Just as Nokia should be paying for the patents that they're infringing upon, if indeed they are. If Nokia are just after money though, then I'm sure Apple's crack team of patent lawyers will screw them in court.

Happy New Year, y'all.

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ffrankmccaffery

3:29 PM on 31 December, 2009

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Miracles of miracles. Arch Machead Cub taking a somewhat neutral stance in regards to of all things Apple? Although Cub you almost spoilt it with your penultimate paragraph. Nonetheless you should be commended and hopefully your recovery should just be around the corner.

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Jay4d0

4:58 PM on 31 December, 2009

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arn't apple counter sueing nokia on grounds that some of their devices are similar to the apple iPhone, funny how they arn't sueing HTC, LG, sony, ect. for the same reasons,

it sounds to me that apple are just stalling for time and draging it out cause they are in the wrong, cause if you think about it if you were going to make a mobile phone in all the research you do for it you would think that in order to comply with the GSM standards you would have come across the patents, by talking to the GMS standards board if only by chance.

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Cub

6:52 PM on 31 December, 2009

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@ffrank - all I said is very similar to comments made to yourself in the past. You are yet to counter any such comments, yet you continue with the same inane bashing... Liking a device with an Apple logo on is no disease like you make it out to be.

My position is often somewhat neutral, yes I'm positive towards Apple and their products, but I poke both sides of the discussion with pointy sticks!

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Rickysio

8:01 AM on 1 January, 2010

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@Cub

While not exactly 100% in line with what I wrote,

"I see that Nokia are entering the SCO phase of their company history: replace product development with whining, then sue everyone, lose, become irrelevant."

- Boo hoo, Apple can sue but Nokia absolutely cannot, because if they do they become irrelevant.

"It is whining. They feel threatened because of the iPhones success and have now decided to file this lawsuit. Why now? Surely if there was any substance to their claims this would have happened years ago. Basically Nokia just produce an endless array of phones to keep people upgrading - no innovation required. What Apple have done is enter the market with a genuinely new product and the masses have responded by making it the most popular smartphone available."

- Boo hoo, Nokia is stagnating and Apple is the most innovative company, like, since EVAR!

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Jay4d0

2:07 PM on 1 January, 2010

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loving the fact that most of you just see it how your tinted apple glasses alow you to see it

to qoute some people above hopefully to bring light to the situation:

"Nokia already has licensing agreements with other companies for their patents and supposely has been in negotiation with Apple for years. Since Apple refused to come to terms I guess the courts is a the next step in the negotiation process."

"apple is counter sueing nokia on grounds that some of their devices are similar to the apple iPhone, funny how they arn't sueing HTC, LG, sony, ect. for the same reasons"

the problem with the religious following of apple and other companies it lends its hand for the followers to see their chosen company as being able to do and see no evil only to see the evil done to themselves and are happy to skew the facts out so only they can be correct and everyone else is in the wrong

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drdark

11:26 PM on 1 January, 2010

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Oooh, I wasn't going to comment, but saw that Cub had joined in, so couldn't resist :P.

@Cub: I think there's a problem with one of your statements "They didn't start the MP3 business and they, and I want to emphasise this one in particular because nobody, *nobody*, believes it". Actually what aggravates some of us isn't Apple fans(add the 'boy' if you like) such as yourself, who often pose valid arguments, but rather those bird-brained consumers out there who DO indeed believe that Apple invented MP3s or indeed music itself. I get hot under the collar whenever I'm standing in Argos or Curry's or wherever and someone walks in asking for an iPod when what they really mean is an MP3 player. The same goes for people who literally think the only place to get music for their iPod is through iTunes. Yes, I know you'll say that isn't really Apple's fault. But the fact is, I just get annoyed when a company's "reputation" seems mostly gained through marketing muscle or basically, the superficial stuff. I do agree with others here that it's up to the courts to decide which side owes the other money though. Having said that, I'm with Nokia, but then you knew that already :P.

@Scotw: "this may simply be a ploy by Nokia to gain access to Apple's tech"

What tech? All they have is a UI! :P

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lensmann

10:29 PM on 3 January, 2010

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Nothing to see here, really. Happens all the time in commercial practice. Apple and most other smartphone makers have a bunch of cross-license agreements. Apple and Nokia have been trying to thrash one out for a couple of years, without success. Nokia ups the ante by filing a claim. Stuff like this really does happen all the time, and it's only the fact that this particular suit relates to shiny gadgets that makes it noteworthy. Most likely, the negotiations will now pick up some pace, the parties will reach agreement, and the suit will be settled. That's really all there is to this.

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sonisoe

1:11 AM on 4 January, 2010

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its their right, but looks real lame for nokia as they're definitely struggling and lagging behind in the smartphone market.... but then again its a dog eats dog out there...

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Rickysio

10:47 AM on 4 January, 2010

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@Sonisoe

Nokia must be damned worried about being by far, the market leader in terms of share in the smartphone market.

Pretty sure that's the definition of struggling and lagging...

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