Home » News » Software News » Internet Explorer Stripped From Windows 7 In Europe » Comments

Comments for Internet Explorer Stripped From Windows 7 In Europe

Comments

Please wait while we process your request

Please wait while we retrieve the user's information

Bio

Your bio is currently empty. Now is a great time to fill in your profile.

This profile is private.

This profile is only shared with friends.

This profile is under review.

We were unable to request friendship with this user.

We were unable to request friendship with this user. Are you logged in?

Your friendship request has been sent to this user.

We were unable to terminate friendship with this user.

We were unable to terminate friendship with this user. Are you logged in?

You are no longer friends with this user.

We were unable to ignore this user.

We were unable to ignore this user. Are you logged in?

This user is now ignored.

We were unable to stop ignoring this user.

We were unable to stop ignoring this user. Are you logged in?

This user is no longer ignored.

pluck_user_mp-abuse_too_long_err

Name withheld

Vectorious

1:42 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Vectorious. Show Details Hide Details

If IE is not shipped with Windows 7, how do I get online so I can get Firefox?

Score:

Name withheld

Martin Leventon

1:43 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Martin Leventon. Show Details Hide Details

I would have thought the best way would be to just not install it by default and have it installed via the componentisation stuff they have announced. Has there been any prices given to europe yet ? I know in the states if you pre-order from best buy the Home Premium upgrade from vista for $55

Score:

Name withheld

SJ

1:44 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore SJ. Show Details Hide Details

I can't comprehend how they came up with this..

Score:

Name withheld

JonCook

1:49 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore JonCook. Show Details Hide Details

The entire issue is a childish nonsense; I think it a little unfair to single MS out for this criticism. What they have perfectly highlighted is the ineptly blinkered thinking of the EC as illustrated by Vectorious. I'm no MS fan-boy, but on this subject I'm with them 100%.

Score:

Name withheld

fatmikel

1:51 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore fatmikel. Show Details Hide Details

This whole thing is ridiculous. The EU needs to back off and stop trying to tell Microsoft what it can and can't do with it's own products.

Score:

Name withheld

Gordon394

1:56 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Gordon394. Show Details Hide Details

@Vectorious - erm that's the central point I address in the article ;)

Score:

Name withheld

CaptNemo

2:00 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore CaptNemo. Show Details Hide Details

C'mon Vectorious, you'd have to be a complete eejit not to have a browser one way or another.

The *vast* majority of W7 installs will be from OEMs who will have a browser pre-installed.

For the retail version, I would expect PC World/Dabs/whoever to provide/sell you a cheapo USB flash drive with a couple of browsers on it - preferably something like PortableFirefox. If you read this site and didn't have a browser ready for a clean install then, frankly, you shouldn't be on t'interweb.

Score:

Name withheld

Chris

2:01 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Chris. Show Details Hide Details

I think I can see how this is going to go...

A similar situation was addressed by Vista which was available in "Home Basic N" and "Business N" editions, sans Media Player. There's a good chance many people never heard of these editions, because no sane retailer bothered to actually sell them. The fact that they existed at all was enough to get MS past the anti-trust laws.

I suspect this will go the same way...

Score:

Name withheld

Moche

2:03 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Moche. Show Details Hide Details

Hold on - isn't Windows Explorer (the bit you use to browse your files and folders in Windows) just Internet Explorer anyway? If I open up My Computer and browse to a folder on the C: drive, I can use the same window to view a web site, by simply typing in the web address into the bar at the top.

You may not have an IE icon, but the shell of it is there anyway as an integral part of the OS. I'm assuming MS won't be stripping that out too? lol.

And why the hell is MS getting this all the time? Safari comes with a Mac and Apple have operated a closed iPod/iTunes loop that would have had MS in court in an instant. Not that I'm a big MS fan, but the Apples and Adobes of the world seem to be slipping under the EU radar recently.

Score:

Name withheld

rav

2:08 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore rav. Show Details Hide Details

This does seem like a non issue. Presumably there'll be a shortcut on the desktop to download IE. Failing that, no sane OEM is likely to ship their PC without a browser installed.

Out of curiosity why isn't this an issue for Apple with bundling Safari? Obviously their PC marketshare is miniscbule but in the market for Macs they are a monopoly. Or is this a stupid question?

Score:

Name withheld

Ebbesen

2:09 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Ebbesen. Show Details Hide Details

"{...} computer manufacturers and users will be free to install Internet Explorer on Windows 7, or not, as they prefer."

Which means that if you get your laptop from Dell/HP/Acer/... then this is a non-issue as the manufacturer will have installed a browser (along with the usual ****load of junk).

This really only affects the 1% of you who do the OS install by yourself, in which case you're probably smart enough to bring along IE/FF/Chrome/Opera on a USB stick.

This is non-issue.

Score:

Name withheld

Gordon394

2:14 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Gordon394. Show Details Hide Details

@Moche - only if IE is installed, which is then integrated into the Windows Explorer shell.

@Ebbesen - perhaps and who is to say someone like Google, who has extensive links with major PC makers, would not negotiate Chrome to be installed ahead of IE instead... ;)

Score:

Name withheld

Marko

2:17 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Marko. Show Details Hide Details

Quite why this unnecessary piece of legislation by the EU was imposed isn't clear, and I'd suggest they're the real villans of the piece.

Score:

Name withheld

Technologychangesandsoshouldyou

2:20 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Technologychangesandsoshouldyou. Show Details Hide Details

I can't believe I'm reading such clueless comments.

The file manager in Windows is a lightweight browser, and should be more than capable of supporting file downloads of browsers.

Microsoft can even include a tool in Control Panel where the user can select which browser they want, or a simple setup procedure when starting Windows for the first time (just like IE8 allows you to set it up so that you can use your preferred search engine and mail client, nto just Microsoft's Bing and Hotmail).

This problem is hardly insurmountable, and it seems like a far more sensible option than the so called 'plenty of choice' Linux brigade who arrogantly assume that you'll be using Firefox and nothing else. Oh you _can_ use something else, but the Best of British to you getting it integrated nicely.

Score:

Name withheld

Ohmz

2:39 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Ohmz. Show Details Hide Details

This whole thing makes no sense to me. Microsoft makes the OS, they should be allowed to bundle their and only their browser on it. If you really want another browser then just download it and use it. What exactly is the issue? This whole thing lacks common sense to me.

@ ravmania "...but in the market for Macs they are a monopoly." Uh, how are they a monopoly again? That is like saying RIM has a monopoly on BB OS, or Palm has a monopoly on Web OS; they make the OS and they can decide who sells it. In this case (Apple) and RIMs' and Palms' they do it on their own hardware.

Score:

Name withheld

PKd71

2:58 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore PKd71. Show Details Hide Details

Hmm, it seems this issue has morphed over time.

Microsoft were never originally criticised for bundling IE and Windows Media Player (WMP) with Windows, but for making the technology behind IE and WMP *intergral* to windows so that those apps could never be uninstalled. This made it unfair to other app providers, as there was always some sort of presence of IE etc in the background (this used to drive me insane when I tried to use Netscape (yes, a long time ago) and it was constantly having issues with IE components).

This is why Apple are not affected with Safari, as apps on Mac OS are pretty much fully uninstallable (for the most part).

If the Euro Court of Justice etc let this case boil down to a 'bundling' or 'inclusion' issue they are idiots, but I suspect that is just people's perspective of it. Or who knows?

Score:

Name withheld

basicasic

3:04 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore basicasic. Show Details Hide Details

This a complete non-issue.

Most people buy from OEMs and they will install a browser of some description anyway. If anyone is installing Windows themselves and can't figure out how to install a browser they shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

Microsoft have done what was asked of them (10 years too late admittedly) and do not deserve a slating on this.

Score:

Name withheld

darkspark88

3:18 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore darkspark88. Show Details Hide Details

This was the best decision they could have made. I can see how Microsoft wanted to highlight to the EC that it was in favour of competition, but it would hardly break business sense and bundle all the other major browsers as options within it's own software. Why not just ask Apple to advertise media library alternatives to itunes when a consumer purchases an Ipod. It wouldn't happen, unless the other company was paying to be mentioned.

Thus, most people, despite IE8 not being avaliable out the box, will download it from Windows Update as an optional update when shown it by Windows. I don't think The EC can stop Microsoft touting optional updates...can they?

Score:

Name withheld

Helmore

3:21 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Helmore. Show Details Hide Details

I agree with Ohmz, Microsoft should be allowed to bundle any piece of software they wish with Windows, as long as they don't prevent/prohibit any other software that competes with their software to be installed and to function properly. Their software should play well with other competing products though. In other words, when I have set Chrome as my default browser, it should not (/never) bring up IE when I open a link. That is still not completely the case, it sometimes still opens IE.

Then comes the fact that MS knows damn well that bundling too much applications with their OS will only make it bloated and does not always bring extra value to the customer.

Score:

Name withheld

Gordon394

3:31 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Gordon394. Show Details Hide Details

I'm sure Microsoft will budge on this but if it doesn't, I think Chrome could be the big winner out of all of this. Why?

Google already has good connections with PC makers. Chrome is really fast, reliable and very simple so it makes the PC's performance look good, it currently isn't targeted by viruses (if/when it is Google is big enough to cope with that), it almost never crashes and confused users with a multitude of options.

Score:

Name withheld

Marko

3:50 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Marko. Show Details Hide Details

Ah, the blind Google love continues...

Score:

Name withheld

John McLean

3:51 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore John McLean. Show Details Hide Details

or how about (3) a "micro-browser" whose only function is to connect the user to a page which allows him to choose and download a browser of his choice. Browser publishers (MS, Apple, Mozilla, Opera, Google etc.) would be freely allowed to register their browsers on the dedicated download page, and each would host its own browser for download, so the user would always see the latest versions. Since the micro-browser (realistically it would be based on IE anyway) can *only* be used to download and install a browser of choice, surely that would satisfy the EU, without requiring MS to bundle third party apps on Windows install discs and avoiding the problem of users installing obsolete (and possibly insecure) versions of browsers from the Windows disc.

Score:

Name withheld

GoldenGuy

4:31 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore GoldenGuy. Show Details Hide Details

Gordon for Prime M- oh wait - that already... hmm.

Score:

Name withheld

AndyVandervell

5:34 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore AndyVandervell. Show Details Hide Details

@GoldenGuy: No. Just, no! :D

Score:

Name withheld

mike3

5:40 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore mike3. Show Details Hide Details

They shouldn't be forced to point their customers else where.

Now what I really want to know is what these EU clowns are doing with all the MS / Intel fine money.

Score:

Name withheld

hankb6d

6:11 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore hankb6d. Show Details Hide Details

LOL nice one MS, two fingers to Brussels and the firefox crowd.

Score:

Name withheld

Steve32

6:31 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Steve32. Show Details Hide Details

lmao @ European Commission, you got what you deserved! M$ should be able to do what they like with their OS - if you don't like - DON'T BUY IT! Why aren't people complaining about Notepad, Paint, Wordpad, Windows Explorer, etc, etc, etc?? Why is IE any different to these - if anything it is more fundamental to the OS than any of them (Windows Explorer excluded).

If I was in business and were M$ I would do exactly the same thing! Anybody techy enough to care about what browser they use is more than clever enough to download and install the one they want. (As you would if you wanted a replacement for Notepad, etc)

Can you imagine a non-techy user being faced with the question the first time they boot their new PC - "Which Browser would you like, IE, Firefox, Opera, etc?" I can imagine my parents giving up at this point as they would not have a clue what was being asked of them! (Yes, I guess you could have a "If you don't know click IE" option - but that brings you full circle!)

Another example of an unelected, unaccountable body making decisions that benefit nobody. Straight bananas anyone? 'nough said!

Score:

Name withheld

Dan5

6:38 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Dan5. Show Details Hide Details

IE 8 might not be installed by default but I reckon there will be a workaround to get it installed on an E version of Win 7.

Besides OEMs such as Dell and HP will be able to put on a version of Win 7 with IE 8, so this E edition will be pretty much pointless. Remember the N version of Windows XP that came without Windows Media Player, if I recall correctly not many copies were sold.

Score:

Name withheld

rav

7:03 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore rav. Show Details Hide Details

@Moche

You can't use explorer as an IE window in Vista. Used to work in XP and previous versions but they had to unintegrate it.

Score:

Name withheld

Martin Daler

8:38 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Martin Daler. Show Details Hide Details

How about this - they sneak IE in on the first security update!

Score:

Name withheld

Xiphias

8:42 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Xiphias. Show Details Hide Details

The more I think about this the worse it gets.

This decision means the browser choice will be in the hands of companies like acer who haven't shown great interest in whether their included software works well or not, I'd rather have microsoft bundle every browser with over 100,000 downloads from a respected site than leave it down to the retailers - while anyone pushing a bad browser will go out a business eventually it'll still take a couple of years before it happens.

I think that if the EU insists on pushing this through the only real solution is going to be a 'basic' browser provided by a neutral party that just has the essential elements (back and forward buttons, bookmarks, password memory, search box, tabs) so that every company 'selling' a browser is on an equal footing and the user can take their time and choose.

If they're going to make it stick then they'll have to apply it to all parties though, No Safari on Mac. No Firefox with Linux Distros, no Browser on your Smartphone, no web capability on your games console, etc.

Score:

Name withheld

Vectorious

8:44 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Vectorious. Show Details Hide Details

@Captnemo

I could install a browser from another source, as I have several computers around the house, but if it were my parents booting up a new computer, even if their old one had not died they would be on the phone to me immediately, and I would be having to instruct them remotely, which never works out well... I would say that 90% of internet users would be stuck at this point.

Score:

Name withheld

ffrankmccaffery

10:42 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore ffrankmccaffery. Show Details Hide Details

When a comments section is littered with "lol"s and other forms of msn speak you know its hit the gutter. Add in the eu hating little englanders and its neck deep in the sewer.

As for the discussion itself, it isnt a problem for the majority of users as others here have mentioned. The manufacturer would have included a browser from whoever had bid the highest as is the case with all other pre installed programs.

And im surprised some home installers have an issue with this. Dont you already have separate cds for drivers and office suites?

Score:

Name withheld

Tim

10:55 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Tim. Show Details Hide Details

I think the Windows Explorer even shows the address bar by default. Problem solved.

Google could indeed by the beneficiary. For most unsavy users, Google IS the internet. And they have so much dineros to encourage OEMs. This could also shift the expression "to google something" from "searching the web" to "browsing the web".

Score:

Name withheld

Steve32

11:19 PM on 12 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Steve32. Show Details Hide Details

@fffrankk... Why does expressing an opinion mean this discussion is in the gutter? For me the "LOLs" are the irony of this whole thing. As for your gross stereotyping and racist remark about "englanders" - well that is the only "sewer" comment I have read here so far!! How do you even know where people are from on here? Oh... you don't! Please take your racist remarks elsewhere.

The main people this will hurt will be people who are very computer ilterate and just want the computer to work. As was pointed out those getting Windows 7 on a prebuilt machine (laptop/desktop) may not have an issue as something probably will get preinstalled. However, if it is not IE then these people may well be on the Support line saying "How do I access the Internet" -> "Oh you need to double-click the FireFox Icon" -> "The what?!?"

Score:

Name withheld

Technologychangesandsoshouldyou

12:16 AM on 13 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Technologychangesandsoshouldyou. Show Details Hide Details

I remember the interview that Jeremy Paxman had with Bill Gates around the time of the American anti-trust controversy.

Paxman may be good at interviewing political targets, but a CEO of a tech company was well beyond his ability.

Bill Gates just sat there non-plussed saying, 'We had an award-winning browser and we chose to give it away with our operating system. What's wrong with that?'

At the time, IE was the browser to use unless you wanted your PC to constantly try to dial AOL under Netscape *shudder*.

I know the underlying problem wasn't the quality of the browser, but that when you tried to uninstall it, it hosed your system; but the EU seemed to lose sight of that and just wanted it left out in the first place. They should be careful what they wish for...

Score:

Name withheld

Spode

8:30 AM on 13 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Spode. Show Details Hide Details

So, like, we get wget, right?

Score:

Name withheld

basicasic

10:57 AM on 13 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore basicasic. Show Details Hide Details

All this stems from Microsoft's abuse of its monopoly position in the OS market to stamp on any competition in the Browser market back in the 90s. The EU verdict is way too late and really irrelevant in todays market where Firefox is able to challenge IE, despite Microsoft's monopoly bundling.

I suppose the main point is that Windows is supposed to be an OPERATING SYSTEM which allows your apps to run smoothly and seamlessly. Microsoft over the years have added peripheral apps (WMP, IE etc) to it for free to add value and maintain their exorbitant price for an OS which really, when you consider how much computer prices have dropped over the years, should cost about £10. Instead media player and browser apps businesses went bust overnight, and an OS still cost north of £100. Thats the power of monopoly for you. And they're at it again with 'free' Antivirus software.

I notice they never saw fit to bundle a nice free office suite with Windows. That would decimate the office-suite market. The market leader would be bankrupt in months.. oh wait .....

Everbody is being shafted by Microsoft's monopoly. You only have to look at their obscene profits to figure that out.

Score:

Name withheld

Ed

12:51 PM on 13 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Ed. Show Details Hide Details

@PK: You've hit the nail on the head there. Somewhere along the line the EU seems to have forgotten what the issue actually was. There's nothing wrong with MS installing it's own apps but they should be easily removable, which they weren't. Either way, simply not installing ie is ridiculous.

Score:

Name withheld

ffrankmccaffery

5:57 PM on 13 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore ffrankmccaffery. Show Details Hide Details

steve32: irony, do you even understand the meaning of the word or are you taking your cue from an old alannis morrisette cd?

and i refered to 'little englanders' in my earlier message and not plain 'englanders' - two entirely differnent terms. a detail that youve somehow forgotten but then you would as otherwise you wouldnt have an arguement of racism

Score:

Name withheld

DrDread

12:00 AM on 14 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore DrDread. Show Details Hide Details

@Ed: Seconded. It's the interweaving of IE with the OS that's the issue so that its pretty much always there; not the app itself. Seems like a silly step by MS if they've actually gone and left no browser whatsoever.

Score:

Name withheld

Steve32

10:57 AM on 14 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Steve32. Show Details Hide Details

@fff.. Wow, thanks for more insults. Now you know my ability to read and understand the English language. Amazing! {shrugs sholders, moves on}

Rest of the discussion has been interesting though. @Ed: Good point! I read elsewhere "The company said it would make it easy for PC makers and users to get at and install the web browsing program.". Interesting to see what this actually means.

Score:

Name withheld

Kerwood

11:42 AM on 14 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Kerwood. Show Details Hide Details

The EU has not put any specific request on Microsoft.

Before accusing the EU of any wrongdoing in this matter, may I point out to the good british public that what we are commenting here on is Microsoft's decision.

Microsoft, ifear, play daft, and it seems to work just fine with Gordon.

The truth of the matter is that it matters not if Microsoft delivers IE with or without IE.

What matters to the EU Competition body (That defends our interest, by the way...) is the specific integration that IE would have with the OS, which is not available to other browsers.

Please Gordon, do not forget that when the time comes, IPC will publish a "special" issue on : Which browsr to choose! (With the adhoc cover DVD).

All good for IPC's business!

Score:

Name withheld

Mo

6:22 PM on 14 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Mo. Show Details Hide Details

IE will not ship PRE-installed on Windows 7, HOWEVER, there will be the option to install it either by the provision of the installer or upon setup, where ticking a checkbox will install it. Either way...

Score:

Name withheld

cjb110

1:52 PM on 15 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore cjb110. Show Details Hide Details

tbh the EU ballsed up big time...what they should have insisted on is making sure IE (and any other apps) were always properly uninstallable. That way the OEM's and users can install whatever and uninstall IE.

That and the issue around OEM bribes etc should have been the extent of EU's interference. None of this pointless Win N and Win E crap, that wont sell anyways.

Distributing the other browsers? How many, top 5? top 10? what about the 11th? Legal issues surrounding the support of the app could be messy. Microsoft does distribute 3rd party drivers, but they also bear some of the support burden too. Why should they support FireFox or Opera? (do we even want them too?)

Score:

Name withheld

pammy

9:29 PM on 15 June, 2009

This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore pammy. Show Details Hide Details

Win 7 pre-installed will ship with the browser of your choice (or in most cases the OEMs choice = IE8). Upgrade DVDs will probably be available with an accompanying IE8 CD.

But the big problem is that you cannot upgrade from Vista to Win7 unless you do a clean install (as written on Cnet website). This means you will have to boot from DVD and erase your entire Vista installation. We all know how painfull that can be!

Score:

Please wait while we file your abuse report.

We're sorry. We were unable to report abuse at this time.

We limit the number of reactions an individual user can submit over a given period for quality reasons. You have currently reached that limit. Please try resubmitting your abuse report again later.

Comment is too long. Enter 500 characters or less.