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Steve

3:45 PM on 8 July, 2009

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I don't think MS will be too worried. They have the business world wrapped up. I think the target market will be the home user.

I can't imagine many businesses with bespoke apps and stuff to be considering a move away from Windows.

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haim

3:47 PM on 8 July, 2009

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This is really what I want for my old thinkpad. It chugs with linux generally so a super parred down linux image with basically just a browser on top would be ideal. But I guess all of linux's drivers for old hardware might not be included.

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Ben

3:56 PM on 8 July, 2009

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Targeting low-spec devices is absolutely where Google should start - it's an area Microsoft have sorely neglected. I'm quite excited to see what they can come up with.

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hankb6d

4:00 PM on 8 July, 2009

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@haim

Seriously why are you even bothering?

Well I hope it sucks a whole lot less than Android, and GDrive - saving and sharing my stuff in the cloud LOL DREAM ON.

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OldTimer

4:06 PM on 8 July, 2009

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Very clever move from Google. A lot of (mainly corporate) businesses are moving to browser based technology for their applications. So a secure, low cost operating system with just a browser is ideal. It also means users cannot run (many) other applications on their machines!

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hankb6d

4:28 PM on 8 July, 2009

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@oldtimer

Yeah sure they are and users just run more porn in a minimised browser.

Browser based technology in 2009? I guess that's called called an intranet.

I don't understand where Google and a free OS for crappy netbooks, is comparable to a corporate application maybe the bloggers of the world are minted LOL

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OldTimer

4:59 PM on 8 July, 2009

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@hank

SAP and Oracle can run entirely in a browser. Or are those not heavyweight enough?

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BOFH UK

5:13 PM on 8 July, 2009

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Actually I can see this working for businesses, well, for certain kinds of business anyway. Firstly the small office environment, maybe 20 to 50 users max, that just need the basic office productivity suite of word processor, spreadsheet, e-mail and some way of sharing those docs. For those environments the thought of a cheap hardware with a per user subscription service to google's tools may actually make a great deal of sense, especially considering the cost of equipping a place like that with a full blown Windows / Office combination.

For those businesses that need application support, well, a lot of them are already moving to web-based applications and that WILL work on this sort of platform. It's almost a move back to the mainframe days - most office workers get cheap, secure and easily maintained hardware and web applications where the development team run the server environment and have full fledged Windows PC's.

Will any of that happen overnight? Nope, not a chance, and putting this onto existing hardware is going to require serious driver development but there IS potential for Google to make major inroads in a lot of seperate spaces here. If I was Microsoft I'd be a bit worried right now and be kicking of a project to deliver the same sort of lean OS on top of a Windows core, even if only as a precaution.

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ilovethemonkeyhead

5:21 PM on 8 July, 2009

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may as well triple boot this onto my upcomming 13 inch macbook pro with windows 7. :)

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Gordon394

5:35 PM on 8 July, 2009

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@hank - I will never understand the planet you live on, but I hear the weather's nice there ;)

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hankb6d

5:55 PM on 8 July, 2009

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@oldtimer

No not really, it's irrelevant to Google Chrome OS i'm missing the link?

@boff

Even a bunch of jacko fans nearly took out the internet, and would I place any business on a remote server with limited to no control the answer is NO.

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hankb6d

6:07 PM on 8 July, 2009

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@Gordon

I live in the real world...

Where Apple make costly over inflated useless gadgets...

Where Hotmail is just the bloody same as Googlemail...

Where IE8 runs just as fast as the latest Firefox and fails to crash...

Where Google Chrome for all its glory is just another browser with 1.2% market share...

Where I have wirelessly streamed multi room music system for £500 less than a Sonos...

I could bang on...

But it's raining FYI

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jacko

6:30 PM on 8 July, 2009

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hank; You're thinking too small. Running an OS with a tiny footprint and being able to access browser based apps is great. It doesn't need to access these apps on the Internet, I can host my own apps on my own network, and have my users access them over the network.

Some virtualisation tools that I use do this now, all without the cost of Windows!

As for Apple, they make some very good stuff, what's useless? I've just bought an iPhone 3GS and it's a great piece of kit. If you want to be able to change the look and feel of the OS and basically fiddle with everything then stay clear, but I don't and it just works for me. Most people that mock the iPhone have never used one. I was a Nokia man for years, dipped my toe in Windows mobile and then back to Nokia. But the Apple way is just a much better model for people that don't need to mess about.

My experience of IE8 is that it's OK, it doesn't crash, but it's slower for me than Safari 4.

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Chris

6:32 PM on 8 July, 2009

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Wow. Is it just me or is the weather making everyone really moody today? I've just come from the MacBook review and it's even worse there...

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Gordon394

6:40 PM on 8 July, 2009

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@hank - thanks, I was having a grumpy day until I read that. Superb satire.

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Xiphias

7:03 PM on 8 July, 2009

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Any bets on whether this'll end up being called COS or Chromos?

Personally I think this is a bad thing. On anything more powerful than a netbook (a real one, not a £300 ultraportable) the OS should be as capable as possible so that the user can do whatever they want. Having an OS that's just a browser means that a user will have to install an entirely new O/S if they develop an interest in digital music editing or want to transfer their old media into another format.

Certainly windows (and Linux, and OS X) could use some improvements in boot up time and some more system-wide features like backup integration but crippling the rest of the OS to get that will just be one step forward and two steps back.

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OldTimer

7:11 PM on 8 July, 2009

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@hank

'and would I place any business on a remote server with limited to no control the answer is NO.'

Its one version of managed service and is becoming increasingly popular with companies that wish to outsource their IT. You may not want to do it but many do.

Google O/S marketed as such with an integrated browser. A standard platform to run business applications with little opportunity to install non-standard applications. Makes for much lower management costs.

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ffrankmccaffery

7:52 PM on 8 July, 2009

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hardware drivers? third party software? most software developers struggle to provide for both xp and vista

just a wet dream for the trendy geeks (oxymoron i know) who wet their kecks at every half-baked idea developed by this company

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hankb6d

7:59 PM on 8 July, 2009

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@Steve Johnson

I don't think small Steve, You are right though it's called an intranet or if you are working in multi locales a VPN maybe. I am bashing cloud computing because of it's going to have problems. Regional Law for one, ownership etc. what would could you do if the mighty Google or Microsoft suddenly said stop or suffered from a successful North Korean attack? You're IT would come to an abrupt halt. It's early days and they say every cloud has a silver lining.

As for the 3GS I am happy you are happy with it for £500 you really should be let's hope you have not got the HOT model that turns pretty pink. I am very happy with my 5yr old Samsung, I have used it with great success many times as a missile, it still holds charge for easy two weeks, and it still makes phone calls with fantastic clarity 3G or no 3G. It plays MP3 and it fits in my coin pocket, It also records video/photos as good as current gen Iphone IMO. I don't need pointless "where is the nearest Italian" apps, rubbish games, or weather forecasts for Manila I don't get lost much either so the "maps" app too are a huge waste. For something a third of the size of the Iphone it has a comparable Ebook reader too which I found quite a shock. I am sure Apple have got it right, but they have not with me, I find OS a bit meh, I find the macbook just to be another notebook after the initial gush, the Ipod/Shuffles to be the worst on the market wrapped in ITunes, the Iphone I agree is OK, but I have no use for it, besides how many models are they bringing out to "fix" the one before. I must admit I take pride I am not another little lamb strolling in to the minimalist stores they have got handing out cash. Funny thing is people often say MS steal and crush companies yet Apple have a fresh lawsuit on their little baby, innovation LOL. If you're happy with Apple fine it would be boring If there was just one choice just like music.

I really think I should do something more productive right now, I think if you have read thus far you may agree. I just banged on a little bit didn't I...

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Charles

11:21 PM on 8 July, 2009

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Google's announcement is obviously exciting, but i dont think Microsoft will be loosing sleep over it just yet. Anyone who has used the beta or RC of windows 7 will know that it is a superb OS and will likely dominate the market for the next three or four years. Ubuntu and OS X are also mature products with strong dedicated user bases. I just dont think people swap OS's like they swap browsers. And if Google's OS will be so simple as to be almost like a browser then one cant help but ask where all the other OS functionality has gone!

Google's focus on a web centric OS certainly does make sense in the long term when most applications and games will run in a cloud environment and local processing will be kept to a minimum. Perhaps they are coming in a bit early with this though. People need truly ubiquitous connectivity on an international scale and at an affordable price before they will consider moving everything online. The frustrating truth is that everywhere from bangalore to san jose you can be stuck without a connection or be forced to pay a kings ransom to it!

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Charles

11:40 PM on 8 July, 2009

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@BOFH_UK

>If I was Microsoft I'd be a bit worried right now and be kicking of a project to deliver the >same sort of lean OS on top of a Windows core, even if only as a precaution.

Check out the Microsoft a microkernel-based operating research project called Singularity:

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/news/features/Singularity.aspx

The likely commercial product to come out of the Singularity project is called Midori:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1466&tag=rbxccnbzd1

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Gordon394

12:05 AM on 9 July, 2009

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@Charles: yep, we've covered that by in August 2008. We're hoping for developments soon:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/software/news/2008/08/01/Microsoft--Midori--Platform-Revealed-Plus-Vista-Ruse/p1

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jacko

12:14 AM on 9 July, 2009

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@Hank

Yes, I did read all the way, it would be rude not too.

I didn't say I liked Apple, I do however enjoy using their products, I do have some reservations about some of their business practices, like I do with MS, as you pointed out, they do move in similar ways. Big difference is, for me, the Apple products are just better. I've only had a Mac for about 2 years, I switched when I got fed up of reinstalling XP and tried about 10 different Linux distro's at home. If only the Amiga had survived, it would have topped them all!

As for the iPhone, you are right, it's just about right now, which is why I didn't buy it before. They have made a difference to the market though, other manufacturers can't wait to bring out the next 'iPhone killer'; every magazine calls every new phone 'the iPhone killer' - you can't buy marketing like that!

I love all the apps I have so far and I love knowing which way I am facing with the compass; great in big cities when I am lost I guess; shame I have only used it at party's to show off to people though so far! :)

Big thing is though, everyone I show the phone to, wants one. It's that simple.

Oh well, each to their own. I still own an old Samsung phone myself, it's not bad, but what's the point of a 2 week battery life if all you can do is make calls!

The handset market is changing, but it doesn't mean we should forget about people who prefer staying in the past. Maybe I could interest you in a Newton? I hear they were the next big thing once.

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ffrankmccaffery

1:37 AM on 9 July, 2009

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the point of 2 week lasting battery life (sic) is not having to worry about your phone dying just when you need it the most. and besides many of the apps on smartphones are largley solutions searching for a problem

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BobaFett

1:14 PM on 9 July, 2009

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Haven't seen much coverage of this but the Google nativeclient project is interesting in what it aims to deliver: a secure native x86 code plugin that will run on multiple browsers and operating systems. It allows rich client applications to be delivered over the web that offer a better user experience than the current AJAX based web apps and that can begin to compete with native applications.

http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/

Given that the operating system is less important in this scenario, I see Google Chrome OS as facilitating a move to this model. It will be free and support the most common things that people use their computers for. If widely adopted, it will create a large user base with no dependency on Windows, Mac or Linux and could encourage developers to target nativeclient as a common platform.

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Simon

1:18 PM on 9 July, 2009

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@ Steve. I'm playing Devils Advocate here but "but what's the point of a 2 week battery life if all you can do is make calls!" Some people only want a phone to make calls, in which case it must be amusing to them that smart phones only last a day. I own a smart phone by the way.

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hankb6d

1:22 PM on 9 July, 2009

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@steve johnson

If you find Iphone apps that suit your everyday business that's fine, I am happy with a phone that basically just make phone calls. Same goes for OS if it fits you that's cool, I installed XP over 5 years ago never had to even use a system restore let alone reinstall. Apple have got the marketing power all I am saying is I do not buy into marketing I buy a product that fits my needs. Sure at the party you would whip out your Iphone and I would whip out my crispy £500 notes LOADSAMONEY!!! I know what chicks prefer ;)

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Dan

1:40 PM on 9 July, 2009

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@Hank,

I think you're making the mistake of believing the wider market share your views.

The mobile comms market has changed and even if you don't like Steve Jobs, the fact is if you embrace technology (which the iPhone is arguably at the front) it can save you time. Depending on how much you value your time, this can be a sensible investment.

I could bang on about this too, but in short:

1) I'm able to leave work earlier as I can review Word/Excel/PPT documents while commuting home - the result being I can see my kids more in the week.

2) With the new Ocado iPhone app, with a few keystrokes I can order any groceries I like to be delivered to the door the next day, whilst being on the tube - the result I don't waste 2 hours of my weekend, again so I can have more time with the family.

In summary this 'useless' device enables me to utilise down-down to be incredibly productive and so I have more time for more meaningful and valuable pursuits.

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jacko

3:28 PM on 9 July, 2009

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@simon; Yeah, I did say that a bit tongue in cheek. I know some people actually need phone's to be phones.

@hank; If you've used Windows XP for so long with no problems then all power to you. I actually work in IT support and have supported Windows for years, XP being the best version yet, however it does (and is very well known for) slow down over time with it's fat registry and horrible disk handling.

As for my iPhone costing me £500, are you talking about the cost over a lentgh of time, or what, as the hardware was about £87? Still money I know, but for what I wanted I was willing to pay. And the girls at the party's love mu iPhone by the way.

I do not buy into marketing; I buy products that I deem to be better. OS X is a far better OS than Windows XP, unless you want to play games or mess about with drivers / registry settings all day.

I had used Windows for years at home (still do at work like I said, it's my job to support it), but when I switched to the Mac, it was like a revelation and I do not like using Windows anymore; too many counter intuitive things.

You actually sound like the kind of guy that the Google OS will be aimed at, as you don't sound like a poewr user. Maybe you should give it a go!

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Dan

5:37 PM on 9 July, 2009

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Typo: I meant down-time, not down-down. Kinda spoiled the emphasis of my conclusion....

No doubt if I'd been writing this on my iPhone it would have spell checked it for me and added even more value to my life....

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ffrankmccaffery

6:15 PM on 9 July, 2009

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@jacko; why on earth would you be messing about with drivers and registry settings all day? most users slip in the supplied cd when installing new equipment and have no need to get tangled in the registry. and while admittedly mac os's layout is far more logically designed when compared to windows, its thoughtfull little touches are largely lost on the vast majority of computer users who work with the concept of spatial memory when dealing with any machinery and that memory is filled with the workings of windows

and pulling out your iphone at parties isnt particullary wise as it only emphasises the fact that your a geek - hardly something youd want a girl to know?

@Dan, maybe you could leave out the management-speak a bit when trying to explain a point as all it does is make you sound like a marketing drone? and i find it incredible how you or anyone would buy groceries without personally inspecting them, particulary fresh fruit and vegatables

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jacko

6:58 PM on 9 July, 2009

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@ffrankmccaffery; Well, I did say I worked in IT, so I guess you could have made a wild stab at why I was using the registry.

However, the fact is Windows XP does slow down after months of use. To install applications, the files are copied all over the place, including the registry. Do you know how you install an application in OS X? Download, Copy to Apps folder, done. Simple. You could even skip the step about copying to the apps folder!

As for pulling the iPhone out at parties, well, I don't. It was a joke, in reply to hanks bit about girls liking money. If I do happen to get my phone out at a party or anywhere else, you know like anyone would, to answer a text, email, check the news, check the weather forecast, check my ebay listings, set Sky+ to record, check something on the Internet, make a note, make a reminder, check my calendar, find out what song is playing, view some photo's, video's, check what stars / planets are in the sky, find a place on a map, email a friend the directions to my location, find a local food delivery (with reviews), find the best place to buy beer, or indeed just to make a phone call.

As Apple says, there's an app for that. ;)

Have Apple got everything right, No. I want a damn flash for the camera. And I didn't buy an iPhone previously as I thought it was missing a few things and Apple really did play catch up. But the features there now are implemented brilliantly. Get someone to show you copy and paste on an iPhone and then see how you do it on other phones and you will see that Apples 'thoughtful little touches' do actually get used by most people, you just don't know it.

Oh and what was wrong with what Dan said? Management speak? I don't think so.

And thanks Dan for pointing out the Ocado app, they run a great service and supply better quality fruit and veg than I can get down my local greengrocers! Now I have an app for that too.........

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rav

8:41 PM on 9 July, 2009

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@Dan

In the absence of an Ocado app for WM I increase my productivity and free time by sending Mrs Ravmania to do the weekly shop! ;-)

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Dan

10:58 AM on 10 July, 2009

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@ffrankmccaffery - Wow!

Replace 'down-time' with 'time I spend stuck in traffic or on the tube or anywhere else I find myself where previously I could not achieve anything productive';

and replace 'commute' with how I get to and from work.... I'm not sure what other words I used could've been construed as management speak....? Maybe replace 'Mobile comms' with 'Mobile communication devices and services' ?

But I'm not sure that adds to the argument or point I was trying to politely make?

On the groceries, you really should try it before knocking it. Like jacko says, the service and quality are fantastic, and you get a nice friendly chap that brings them into the kitchen and always says something nice to my kids(!). All round everyone is happy as a result.

But to be fair to the point I made - it all depends on how you value your time. I'm not knocking it if you spend a few hours of quality time at the weekend at your local farm market or grocer; but if you're flapping round a busy tesco's with screaming kids in tow each time you run out of food then I suggest you're missing out.

Alternatively, ravmania does have a better solution, but Mrs Dan doesn't give me that luxury as I put her out to work so we can afford to embrace more of Steve Jobs technology ;-)

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DrDread

12:35 PM on 10 July, 2009

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OMG finally a reference to Google Wave's existence :P!

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ffrankmccaffery

7:32 PM on 10 July, 2009

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@jacko; you mentioned editing registries within the context of a home user and not as an it worker so my point is still valid, re-read your own earlier posts

and im aware how programs are installed on mac os - i have used a mac, its just that i dont care as im perfectly content with windows, its second nature as it is to the majority of other computer users. can you tell though how i can get the programs easily available on windows but not on mac os? not what youd call ease of use?

life really must have been the equivalent of the dark ages for you before the dawn of the iphone? you need an iphone to tell you which bars to go to? have you never never been out before? most people have a regular place where they and their friends meet and move along to wherever the atmospheres good - thats just regular people for you

@dan; why would it take me hours to buy groceries at the town centre market? a few minutes is all i need at the stall to pick the freshest and ripest vegetables for cooking later. didnt your mother teach you how to pick your own groceries? i suppose such details are irrelevant to you unless someone suddenly develops an app for it

all this is ripe material for a stand-up comedian to play with as im sure one will

and anyway this is getting too far of topic considering the original subject matter. but dont worry ill continue with you another day

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jacko

11:00 AM on 11 July, 2009

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@ffrankmccaffery

You must be Reading something wrong, but we'll leave that there.

As for being 'content' with what you have, that's fine, you be content with what you are used to and don't ever try anything new! The Internet must really be a shock for you to use.

So, what programs can't I get on the mac that you really want, I can do everything I want and more on my mac and I believe it offers a better user experience.

I'm glad you have a regular place to go out to, again you stick to what you know and leave the adventure to the rest of us.

I love technology, so I guess the iPhone fits in with that, it's finding new ways to do old things and new things that couldn't be done before. I enjoy using it and finding new things to do out in the world.

Actually come to think of it, why are you using the internet, on a technology site of all things, that's a new way to do old things, it doesn't sound like your life style at all.

Some people just don't like new things, I do so that's just the way it is.

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jacko

11:48 AM on 11 July, 2009

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@ffrankmccaffery; My apologies, I did mention the registry settings, regarding Windows, although the context isn't entirely clear.

I read and posted my last post on my iPhone, so I must have skipped past that comment. That's one of the downsides of using the Internet on a small device, instead of the 23" screen on my Mac that I am now using! Damn thing....... :)

Just to be clear, I don't hate Windows, I just find Mac OSX a far better experience, just like when I unboxed my mac, it just felt special. It's difficult to understand, if you've only ever unboxed a 'bland' PC. Maybe PC's from makers like Alienware or whatever have a similar thing, but I'm not sure.

And I am hoping for big things from Windows 7. I like competition and I am not going to stick with OS X, just because. I am waiting for Windows 7 before I buy a new laptop, if that's better (for me), then I have much more choice of hardware, if not then I'll buy a mac Pro, they are great machines as it is.

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ffrankmccaffery

4:34 PM on 11 July, 2009

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@jacko; oh im reading something wrong alright - your posts. and no i wont leave it, re-read your earlier post and tell me if im wrong

im using the internet now and its hardly shocking for me right now - im enjoying the test match coverage right now on a proggram called Tvants - something i wouldnt be able to find on a mac.

and i find it ridiculous that you equate a dislike for apple with a dislike for technology as a whole. well than what the hell am i doing on a technology site?

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jacko

1:41 PM on 12 July, 2009

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@ffrankmccaffery

calm down son.

I have never said that a dislike of apple is a dislike of technology, you have that wrong. Indeed I even mention that I am looking forward to windows 7 and getting a new laptop with it on, if it's any good of course.

It is you that can't get the fact that Apple make great kit and the iPhone is an example of that and is probably best in it's class.

If you are happy using windows then that's fine if it suits you, but don't dismiss other ideas by being blinded by hate, for whatever reason.

Oh, there are equivalents to tvants on the mac and If that's all your missing, you really should reconsider why you don't like the mac.

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ffrankmccaffery

6:06 AM on 13 July, 2009

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now your contradicting yourself and even forgetting to answer any of my points

give me an example of an equivalent of tvants on a mac? and if you think thats what im missing than than how about the fact that im watching it on a thinkpad?

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jacko

11:38 AM on 13 July, 2009

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@ffrankmccaffery

Stop ranting, it makes you look silly.

What contradiction? You said I hate anything not Apple and I said no I didn't. Are you confusing anything not Apple as just being Microsoft? You do know that there is technology beyong both Apple and Microsoft don't you?

And just because I said I love the iPhone and Apple make great doesn't mean others don't make great kit or that I don't like whatever that is.

As for me not answering all your points, well you have been very selective in yours too and I didn't whinge about it.

If you want a discussion then please let's have one, but stop ranting and we can have a sensible chat.

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Dan

3:13 PM on 13 July, 2009

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Thought I'd check back in to see if we're still going despite the article now being on page 2 of TR....

@ffrankmccaffery - if you re-read this thread of posts you really are making angry posts instead of constructive criticisms.

Your final address to me "don't worry ill continue with you another day" probably says it all, when the only point I am attempting to make is that I believe there a section of the public that value technology and find it can enhance their lives for the better. My personal view is that the iPhone is currently at the top of this list, but its a view. (A view which has not yet been constructively contradicted anywhere in this thread and so I still whole heartedly maintain that view).

Ps. I'm not sure what your thing with groceries is? Re-read my posts. I value quality time, I value quality groceries and I value quality service. I too enjoy selecting great fruit and veg at the local farm market together with a friendly bit of chat with the knowledgeable farm trader behind the counter - which is why I made that very point.

I also made the point that if alternatively you were getting your veg from tescos (which lets face it 99% of the public do) then I suggest its preferable to use the Ocado app. Not sure what my mother had to do with any of this?

Please twist the above as you feel appropriate....

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ffrankmccaffery

5:12 PM on 13 July, 2009

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@jacko; are you willing to give me a mac alternative to tvants or are now now going to resort to personal insults?

@dan; if you value quality fruit and veg so much than why are you entrusting a part-time student to select it for you? and also you still cant get rid of that corporate-speak can you?

feel free to reply back the pair of you

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Dan

6:03 PM on 13 July, 2009

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@ffrankmccaffery - Help me out. Which bit of my last post was 'corporate-speak'?

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jacko

7:44 PM on 13 July, 2009

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@Dan. I wouldn't bother trying to reason with him anymore. He obviously likes to argue rather than discuss.

He Also likes to moan about not answering his questions when he doesn't answer yours either.

@ffrankmccaffery if you feel anything I said was a personal insult then don't leave the house.

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ffrankmccaffery

8:23 PM on 13 July, 2009

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@dan; "there a section of the public that value technology and find it can enhance their lives for the better." you could have just ripped that sentence out form a glossy brochure

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Dan

10:27 AM on 14 July, 2009

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@ffrankmccaffery : If by comparing my posts to a glossy brochure you mean they are deliberately clear, articulate and well structured, then yes we finally agree on something.

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