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Peter

2:56 AM on 21 October, 2009

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I seriously doubt this is the 'ultimate' iMac, they'll probably release an improved one next year.... :)

Only having a "display port" input on the 27". Nice if you have an Macbook pro etc. But I feel that it is a utter shame to not be able to easily hook up a SKY +/ V+ / Xbox360 / PS3 via HDMI. C'mon Apple....

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Gordon394

3:00 AM on 21 October, 2009

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@Peter - obviously you can get a Display Port to HDMI adaptor, but I agree - it's not ideal.

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Peter

3:39 AM on 21 October, 2009

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Hi Gordon,

I don't think Apple do the reverse... i.e. HDMI -> Displayport. The only adapter I could see on the net was this. http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-DVI-to-Mini-DisplayPort-Converter-p-17859.html (180USD)

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PSV

7:10 AM on 21 October, 2009

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Alas, the new iMacs are exactly what I want from a desktop computer, and it's almost perfect for me, save for the fact that Apple failed to exploit these 1080p and higher displays by not fitting a Blu-ray drive in either model, and not even having it as an option. That's pretty poor going.

I wonder what Apple's 720p movie downloads are going to look like on the 27" iMac, considering that it'd only fit a quarter of the display at native resolution...

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PSV

7:17 AM on 21 October, 2009

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One other galling thing is that the price of the MacBook has now risen to £799, which seems a little steep considering that the US pricing remained at $999; it's poor form for Apple for what is supposed to be their entry level machine - ideally, they should have priced it around the £699/719 mark, and perhaps dropped the price of the entry-level MacBook Pro to £849/879 so that there would still be the incentive to upsell for the aluminium casing et al.

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Wedge

8:05 AM on 21 October, 2009

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Hmm. Firewire is removed from Macbooks. I bet that will go well with owners of the Apogee Duet which Apple is so keen to sell to musicians. Poor starving musician? You have to buy the Macbook Pro!

The 27" iMac looks like a great machine for Logic and Final Cut though and nice to see them finally being available with Quad-core processors.

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GoldenGuy

8:16 AM on 21 October, 2009

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Please for the love of God let them have sorted out a spring-loaded card slot. The way cards stick out the MBPs is hideous enough but a card hanging out your iMac would be even worse. Might sound like a small point but I just watched their typically back-slapping video boasting 'all screen and no distractions' - I think a flash card popping out the side might ruin the aesthetic a bit.

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Gordon394

8:37 AM on 21 October, 2009

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@Peter http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=apple+display+port+hdmi+adaptor

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PaulBlakeman

9:01 AM on 21 October, 2009

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No Blu Ray on the iMac is simply criminal, who are they trying to kid sticking with DVD, a Blu Ray option isn't so hard to add is it, Sony have them in there low end notebooks now. I like the new Macbook apart from that there is no SD card slot or firewire and that just 200 Dollars more get you a Pro with all the extras that it brings. Job's says they have some low cost products coming in 2010 I guess we can expect a 10" Macbook then, you know Apple won't call it a Netbook lol.

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PaulBlakeman

9:06 AM on 21 October, 2009

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It looks like they have a new Apple remote now too although you can't get it with the Macbook does that mean they have dropped the support for it with this model as you can get it with the Macbook Pro and iMac. As soon as they put Core i7's in the Pro's I will get a 15" one of them I think.

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Ian Yates

9:21 AM on 21 October, 2009

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Is it just me who thinks a multi-touch mouse sounds like a terrible idea?

I'll certainly try to play with one, but I rest my fingers on the mouse not hold them above until I need to click.

It sounds like you have to keep your fingers perfectly still until you want to perform an action.

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ChaosDefinesOrder

10:11 AM on 21 October, 2009

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anyone else think that a two finger side-ways swipe on a mouse would be a really uncomfortable gesture to perform? Also, they seem to once again not realise that people generally rest both fingers on the front of a mouse, so having to lift off a finger to change between left and right click is an awkward thing to do!

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Ben

10:33 AM on 21 October, 2009

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Really cool updates! =D Have ordered the Magic Mouse. Given the semi-touch approach to right and left click on Mighty Mouse I don't think Magic Mouse will be any more difficult to use but we'll have to wait and see. Other gestures? Time will tell!

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Fleabane

10:46 AM on 21 October, 2009

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I'm typing this on a three year old ibook with a 2GHz instead of 2.26GHz Core 2 Duo and a fire wire port! OK the other changes are useful, assuming it doesn't cost an arm and leg to upgrade the RAM to 4Meg, but as for bleeding display ports, I've still got an at the time, very expensive and useless monitor with an ADC port, apples last attempt at screwing up the standardisation we the consumer crave, but I guess I'm living in the stone age or 2006 as it was once known.

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NicholasName

10:58 AM on 21 October, 2009

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"and still, the world's most energy-efficient desktop computer". Really? By what measure?

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PSV

11:10 AM on 21 October, 2009

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@Fleabane: There never was an iBook with a 2GHz processor (plus they used PowerPC chips anyway, not Intel chips), so I can only assume that you mean you have a three-year old MacBook. Same goes for upgrading the RAM to 4GB not 4MB. Try reading through your post once before posting; it would save others having to decipher it.

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basicfurball

12:17 PM on 21 October, 2009

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@PSV

How much deciphering did it really take to get from 4MB to 4GB?

Obviously a simple typo.

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Jay4d0

1:22 PM on 21 October, 2009

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since they are using the new 16:9 screens as a 'perfect HD video viewing experience' to not give the user the most basic HD medium of blu ray seems very odd esp when its a lovely 1080p screen

I agree about the mouse about resting your fingers on it then having to lift them to click but sometimes I drum roll on my mouse which would register as a whole load of clicks lol.

I really want that wallpaper though.

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Cub

1:29 PM on 21 October, 2009

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@Nicholas - Ta-daa! - http://www.apple.com/uk/environment/ - it's amazing what, ooooh, 30 seconds on the internet can find you. As I understand it, even Greenpeace are happy with Apple these days... Not that that means much!

As a negative point though, Apple are still to bring their recycle-a-mac scheme to anywhere outside of the State.

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AbuTech

1:40 PM on 21 October, 2009

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Mini DisplayPort + USB AUDIO to HDMI adapter cable by Neet http://bit.ly/3FofST

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NicholasName

2:01 PM on 21 October, 2009

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@cub

So a c2d based mini is more energy efficient than an atom powered nettop? Well done Apple.

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jacko

4:26 PM on 21 October, 2009

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@Nicholas

There's a reason why it's called a nettop or netbook, that means it's not a desktop.

"and still, the world's most energy-efficient desktop computer"

Hope that helps.

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NicholasName

5:12 PM on 21 October, 2009

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@jacko, how is a box full of electronic components (motherboard, ram, x86 processor, hard drive and peripherals) that sits on top of a desk running the most popular desktop operating system and used for general office and multimedia purposes by home and office users, not a desktop. Presumably because of the atom? In which case I understand why the old PowerPC Apples were not desktops either. Whatever, I'm off to drink my thing that I can't call a cup of tea because its in a mug.

On reflection, I can see what Apple has done now, and this really cracks me up: unlike all the other sentences in the advert, there is no full stop at the end of the line "and still the world's most energy-efficient desktop computer", so what it actually says is "and still the world's most energy-efficient desktop computer starting at $599", which is probably true. Bless them.

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jacko

6:48 PM on 21 October, 2009

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@Nicholas - So if you can't win an argument, just change the definitions of what products are defined as, nice. netbooks, laptops, desktops, servers and now smartphones all have different uses and requirements, that's why they have different names, the boundaries may be getting blurred, but, Apple, Acer, HP or whoever can use the often used and already defined names for these devices.

Sorry if that messes up your point.

So is it a cup or is it a mug? They are two different things you know! :)

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Xiphias

7:39 PM on 21 October, 2009

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@jacko: But if you're going to be that restrictive in your definition then the Mac Mini isn't a desktop either as it uses a laptop processor and hard drive. I think this is another lie like claiming the air is the thinnest ever laptop.

On the subject of the iMac the new screen sounds impressive and I'm glad LG.Philips (presumably) decided to make one at that resolution. I can't wait until we start seeing it in standalone monitors. The long-overdue video input is also nice, but it's a shame they haven't fixed all the other issues with it.

The new Mouse seems something of a lame effort as well, it seems like the only actual new gesture is the side swipe, but looks a lot more uncomfortable than the usual RMB + scroll wheel method of going through tabs.

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Peter

8:25 PM on 21 October, 2009

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@Gordon

When TR do their review of the 27" model. Could we please have a test of connecting up a HDMI/DVI source via the mini display port input . Also if possible include how input switching works is handled.

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xenos

8:25 PM on 21 October, 2009

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They listened to me about the polycarb macbook! The 27" iMac looks quite compelling, good all round upgrades. I'm not sure about the mouse though, I mean it looks like a bit of a gimmick on a desktop.

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jacko

9:45 PM on 21 October, 2009

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@Xiphias: No, the Mac Mini uses a processor that can be used in a desktop or laptop, like I said the boundaries are blurring. This point isn't about what components are used. Why don't you go into a store and ask for a NetBook and then see what you get? Or tell them you like the look of that foldable desktop computer and then be told it's a laptop. It's defined at the moment as what it is.

I'm not being pro Apple here, I think they make bad decisions sometimes, like no blueray drive on the iMac, no SD card reader on the Macbook and there are other things too. But I just hate when people throw in stupid arguments which are so obviously 'I hate Apple / Mac" and I need to slam them down........ Take a better shot next time, I may well agree with you!

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Jay4d0

10:32 PM on 21 October, 2009

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@jacko: No, they are laptop processors sure you can use them in a desktop but it doesn't change the fact they are laptop components. It may be no negative point that they are laptop components as modern laptops are far more powerful than most people need and they save massive amounts of power.

but there can be no illusion that the mac mini and smaller iMacs are just very powerful laptops.

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jacko

8:50 AM on 22 October, 2009

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@Jay : "Sure you can use them in a desktop"; So the Mac Mini is a desktop then?

"but there can be no illusion that the mac mini and smaller iMacs are just very powerful laptops." Yet, if you called them laptops, you'd get a funny look, right?

And that brings us to the end of this defining what things are session! Thanks for all your input and lets actually discuss things without bias.

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Ironduke

11:00 AM on 22 October, 2009

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Desktop cpu's in the 27"

this is a great update from uncle steve, but the price hikes especially on the macbook are ham shank

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xenos

1:09 PM on 22 October, 2009

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Yeah they finally redesign the MacBook and then make it so expensive you might as well buy a Macbook Pro, especially if you get educational or higher educational discount. I don't think the 27" iMac is bad value though, that's one hell of a monitor.

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NicholasName

1:40 PM on 22 October, 2009

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@jacko,

I'm enjoying the glimpse into your world, although its making my simple brain go a bit wobbly. My understanding is simple, but please let me know if I'm wrong:

A laptop is a portable bifolding computer with integrated monitor and pointing device (trackpad) and battery that can be used away from the mains.

A desktop is a computer that is designed to be placed on a desktop and not conveniently used away from the mains. Usually they do not have integrated monitors, but there are exceptions (the iMac, Eeetop, Commodore Pet perhaps(!))

These are the two main traditional computer groups, but there are other format such as tablets, which broadly follow the laptop model but without folding.

I cannot see how the Mac Mini is not a desktop computer. Apple has not necessarily lied, (the advert says that it is the most energy efficient desktop computer that costs more than $598, which may well be true since it rules out all the cheaper nettop machines), but the advert is horribly misleading to the point where I am certain that it amounts to false advertising. Which I don't like. Especially in cases where it will be preying on people who are trying to be conscientious about important issues.

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jacko

2:34 PM on 22 October, 2009

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@Nicolas : I don't know how it took you so long to work out what a laptop is and what a desktop is, but well done. Now you see the difference can you see what I've been saying all along? The Mac Mini is a desktop and the Netbook isn't, therefore your argument about the Netbook was flawed.

"I cannot see how the Mac Mini is not a desktop computer" - The Mac Mini is a desktop computer, that's why your comparison to the Netbook was wrong, or do we need to start this again? :)

Whether Apple are being honest or not I don't know, maybe TR can do some comparisons?

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NicholasName

3:38 PM on 22 October, 2009

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@jacko

I have not once mentioned the word "netbook". That would be a laptop by my definition.

I am comparing the Mac Mini with the small pcs that are produced by a number of maufacturers recently, which are powered by atom processors, perhaps the Asus B202, B208, etc or the Acer Aspire Revo (http://www.trustedreviews.com/pcs/review/2009/06/05/Acer-Aspire-Revo-R3600---nVidia-ION-Nettop/p1) perhaps, which are commonly referred to as "nettops". These do not have screens or batteries; ergo they are, by any definition, desktops. Such machines consume considerably less power than a Mac Mini.

I am quite sure that, if pressed, Apple would have to rely on that missing full stop. In any event the advert is (almost certainly deliberately) misleading. The problem for Apple is that they refuse to acknowledge that low power processors have any place in the modern PC (hence their reluctance to join in the netbook market).

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purephase

4:54 PM on 22 October, 2009

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@jacko/Nicholas etc

Does seem to be a bit of a spurious argument. Most of a machines efficiency is down to how you use it. I'm guilty of snoozing my mac because it rarely requires a reboot - which of course uses power. On the other hand I shut down my PC laptop (and unplug the PSU) every time I use it because it works better when it's given a reboot every day.

All these claims of energy efficiency are just guilt insurance really. There's nothing energy efficient about uni-body computer construction compared to a simple metal box (or any of the equally extravagant options from Sony, HP etc), and let's face it most of these will be bought to replace computers that are still perfectly serviceable.

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NicholasName

5:47 PM on 22 October, 2009

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@purephase,

Yes, I'm with you there - its the same as the "buy a new prius vs maintain an old banger" argument - it almost invariably works out more environmentally sound to simply avoid replacing usable equipment. But this is different. I simply don't like what Apple has done - I can accept that every manufacturer must market their product, but this claim is a false and misleading one, and it is designed to appeal to the less pc-literate majority. That's just not on.

Oh, and for the record, I withdraw all I said above about the missing full stop. The full stop is not missing on the Apple website. So I have no idea how Apple could justify its claim.

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jacko

7:22 PM on 22 October, 2009

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@Nicholas; You have my apologies. I must have read netbook somewhere and ran with that. You are right then, there you go, print it out! :)

I must remember to read things properly, although I must admit to being somewhat confused at comments by others against my netbook / desktop argument. Either way my apologies. And if it helps, I've just got new glasses! :) (I'll go and sit at the back of the class for a while and eat this big pie of humble!)

As to whether Apple can say that or not, may be a complaint to the ASA is in order from you to put them straight?

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Jay4d0

10:22 PM on 22 October, 2009

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@ jacko: I never said it was a laptop or that it wasn't a desktop but usually when people say desktop you think of a system that is far more powerful than a laptop (that's why there is the 'nettop' name because people are educated that you are not getting a powerful desktop computer)

the important thing to note is that where the system stands may dictate its name doesn't mean it may conform to the traditional perceptions, therefore in its literal sense the mac mini IS no more than a powerful laptop without a built in screen (so that's how the can call it the most energy efficient desktop because it should use less power than a laptop of same spec)

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NicholasName

12:11 AM on 23 October, 2009

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@jacko

Very gracious of you. It's not good though. I wonder if TR has a view? (If anyone is still bothering to read this)

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Dan

5:20 PM on 23 October, 2009

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What's TR's view on the absence of blu-ray?

Does seem a terrible waste of that screen. Particularly if Sony et al have already demonstrated the licensing of the technology can be made economic.

Whilst I'm more of a fan of iTunes than many, even I wouldn't want to be reliant on iTunes restictive movie store for my Hi-Def entertainment.

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MarioM

5:33 PM on 23 October, 2009

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Thanks for all your daft spam on 'what is a desktop/laptop' guys, very useful.

Back on the topic, I played with the new mouse yesterday in an Apple store and I wasn't that impressed. The mouse is really, really light and I kept knocking it over with my fat-fingered swipe attempts.

What is more, the tiny new keyboard that comes with the 27" is not back lit and has no numeric keypad. Ok, the backlit is a nice-to-have but no keypad? FFS.

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Jim Fulton

7:03 PM on 23 October, 2009

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@MarioM

None (as far as I know) of Mac's desktop keyboards are backlit. And the numeric keypad is a no cost option with the wired keyboard - which I prefer as you don't have to f***y about changing batteries every so often.

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