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ilovethemonkeyhead

6:55 AM on 24 February, 2010

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so much for "think differently"

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mistrip

9:01 AM on 24 February, 2010

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This story needs a "work warning"!

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Vivid

9:03 AM on 24 February, 2010

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Will we get and advert directed by Tony Scott (let's keep it in the family) for next year's Superbowl showing Bill Gates in high waisted running shorts throwing a hammer into Steve Jobs' giant projected face?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L2fsubA2-c

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Chilliboom

9:10 AM on 24 February, 2010

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Two stories so two comments...

Although it was always a little depressing to see just how many 'adult' apps there were on the store this is clearly a deal with Playboy to corner this particular section of the apps market isn't it?

Secondly, I understand your cynicism over the Wagamama app and it does look a security risk but for those of us who are deaf and don't use the phone side of it at all it could be a godsend...

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Bluepork

9:44 AM on 24 February, 2010

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Yay to the gratuitous pics of hot girls in swimsuits in this story. Way to go, Gordon!

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jacko

9:52 AM on 24 February, 2010

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You expect Apple to listen to anyone but themselves? Doubt it, they never have before.... I love my Mac and my iPhone, but Apple do sometimes really annoy me!

As for the cynicism over the Wagamama app, I don't get your feelings (apart from the credit card payment bit!); I order food and services online (computer and phone) all the time, instead of using the phone as it suits me. If I'm ordering food, it's great to have it in black and white, listing exactly what I've order rather than trying to explain to the guy on the phone while he is actually doing something else instead of listening to me and then gets my order wrong! Also, I don't think my online orders ever gave me an engaged tone when I can't get through..... :)

Online and app ordering is the future!

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Keithe6e

10:01 AM on 24 February, 2010

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Oh dear. In recent years I've become a bit of an Apple fan, but censorship is one of my biggest gripes. Steve I'm pretty sure you will be angering more people doing this than keeping happy those insecure women who whine about degrading women, blah blah.

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ruthless

10:15 AM on 24 February, 2010

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Thought police out in force at Apple HQ.. another reason to dislike them

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lensmann

11:05 AM on 24 February, 2010

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I'm not particularly fussed about the demise of Adult apps, but I agree completely with Gordon's comments about Apple's attitude, and this is the fundamental problem with any closed platform. Hopefully Android on WinMo 7 will pick up enough marketshare to give developers the option of voting with their feet.

And yeah, guys, this post really needs a NSFW tag.

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Tim Sutton

12:53 PM on 24 February, 2010

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I don't know why Apple bothered if this is an image thing, amongst my friends anyone with an iPhone is automatically thought to be a tosser anyway.

If it's another example of Apple trying to force people to only use a specific Apple way of doing things, be it organising music or looking at boobs, then what did anyone expect? You buy from Apple, your free choice in using the product is forfeit. You knew that going in.

It's a shame though, I hear pictures of boobs are incredibly hard to find on the internet these days.

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ffrankmccaffery

1:46 PM on 24 February, 2010

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A really staggering piece of hypocrisy. To disallow porn apps from small developers for being offensive to women and yet apply no such restrictions on offerings from Playboy and Sports Illustration? Somehow I doubt the hack a the New York Times (a company with an equally inflated opinion of itself incidentally)pointed out the contradiction.I hope some of these rejected developers seek legal action over this as there clearly is a case here.

At least one resident Machead in Keith refused to apologize for Apple in this instance. Even though he caught the wrong scent. Cub we're waiting for you too.

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MGS

1:56 PM on 24 February, 2010

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Oh Tim what a surprise to find you entering anti-Apple comments along with your cronies. I would never of expected it of you! Apple could not win if they left the smutty apps alone they were being criticised and when they act they are criticised! I just don't get what the problem is - when like Apple you are the market leader in design, style, content, quality, usability, innovation, functionality and sheer technology pleasure you get to determine the ground rules in general. Most people are very happy to pay the Apple price and use the best products. A few whinge on this and other forums...

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Gordon394

2:02 PM on 24 February, 2010

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@mistrip - not according to Apple... these remaining apps are fine for your kids ;)

@Bluepork - not gratuitous, actually making a fundamental point about the hypocrisy here.

@jacko - it's all about the credit card payment bit!

@lensmann - that's the entire point, these are the apps Apple has decided are decent enough for minors.

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rav

2:26 PM on 24 February, 2010

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Is everyone forgetting all of the adult content also available on iTunes? They're happy to sell movies and shows featuring nudity and sex. And some of the podcasts are very explicit. But I guess Mum's are fine with that.

How long before Mobile Safari starts blocking sites?

@MGS

Apple aren't fanned either way. They could just choose one policy and then apply it consistently to all apps and content.

You also forgot to mention Apple's superior marketing. They've never been the leader in technology. The iPhone has at no point used bleeding edge tech. It's always been about the software.

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Keithe6e

2:31 PM on 24 February, 2010

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@ffrankmccaffery: At least one resident Machead in Keith

I've always pointed out things that are wrong with Apple stuff, that's not new. The only reason I usually make a comment is when you get the Apple hater brigade coming out with pointless and usually unrelated comments. eg., recently I even mentioned how Apple's nagging screen when I plug the Iphone into my Zepp was pointless and annoying, and should have an option to turn off etc. I'm not sure, but I assume a true MacHead would be someone who think everything Apple do is pure gold dust, I can assure you I'm not one of those.

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lensmann

3:10 PM on 24 February, 2010

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@ffrankmccaffery: What sort of legal case would programmers have against Apple? Their agreement with developers is pretty watertight in giving them the discretion to be as arbitrary as they want. At the end of the day, it's their store - they're free to refuse to stock whatever wares they choose.

It's clearly bad from a public relations point of view - the huge number of applications is part of what gives the iPhone platform its appeal so you'd think they'd want to keep their developers on side - but I don't see how it's legally problematic.

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Chris

3:20 PM on 24 February, 2010

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I'm all for a bit of variety in the images you choose to adorn your posts, and I see why these particular choices are necessary, but crikey! Put an NSFW tag on the header! The potential for weeks of female angst in the workplace is just not worth it... :)

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ffrankmccaffery

3:23 PM on 24 February, 2010

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MGS: your point is just priceless. I had to reach for glass of at first. Apple for being the leader in design, style, content, usability, flower-arranging, innovation etc. should therefore have Chart Blanch to practice arbitrary and double standards such as this?

@Keith: you seem to have forgotten our previous tussles and besides I have a new bunny in MGS to play with here.

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Ala Miah

3:36 PM on 24 February, 2010

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What? no more boobs?

How on earth am i going to spend my lunch breaks now? : (

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Keithe6e

4:32 PM on 24 February, 2010

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@ffrankmccaffery: you seem to have forgotten our previous tussles

If you mean sometimes I defend Apple's idea's, then yes I do. But I do for any product not just Apple. If you can give me an example of were I've defended an idea of Apple, when that idea was total nonsense please show me. If a product is good, I will say so, if it's bad I'll say so, I'm pretty much black and white in that area. I don't come out with comments like, oh it's Sony's product X and is a load of rubbish because I don't like Sony.

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drdark

5:18 PM on 24 February, 2010

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@Keith @ffrankmccaffery: Would you two get along already? You're both reasonable people. And I don't think it's fair to bring up previous tussle in a current er tussle, anyway.

@Tim: :D.

@MGS: Wow...

@Topic: Apple don't have a proper approval or monitoring process. This has been clear for some time. Their "system" or lack of one is utter chaos where all that's matters to them is getting their money and being able to quote "thousands" as their app numbers in ads.

Since they've gathered quite a few by now, I'm sure they figured they could lose 5000 and still keep their current ads intact. I've already seen elsewhere that a removed app has been resubmitted and approved.

Some time ago, they removed some free app that accessed the project gutenburg library because it was possible to read the Kama Sutra...

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Jay4d0

5:45 PM on 24 February, 2010

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there are much deeper issues afoot here than blindly blaming apple (or defending them) it isn't apple doing the censorship (though they facilitated it) it's the people who have complained the reason poster Chris said his last sentence, if the situation was reversed and it was mostly male nude apps would all the complaints have come in?

its interesting that women are complaining that their 'fellow' (I hate that term men and women are exactly equal all of the time) women are excercising their right to free speach, movement, whatever and are only complaining because men are looking at these apps yet im sure they wouldn't complain if they were of men

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kdot

6:57 PM on 24 February, 2010

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for me removing the apps isnt a problem, its the fact there is another way. Why didnt they just use the parental controls to limit the apps view, or add a "This may be questionable... I am over 18..." disclaimer?

As for the women, I am sure a seperate category would have helped, do these apps come up often in normal "I'm not searching for soft-porn" use?? If they do just make category x not appear in searches unless opted-in.

Removing the apps seems like panic or laziness.

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lensmann

7:49 PM on 24 February, 2010

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Oh, for crimmy's sake. Now from reports elsewhere it looks like they've added a new "explicit" category in the App store. One presumes the removed apps can be for resubmitted for inclusion there. Do they just hate their developers or what?

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rav

8:32 PM on 24 February, 2010

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About the Wagamama app. Can I order my Yaki Soba with no bean sprouts?

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BobaFett

8:49 PM on 24 February, 2010

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@kdot: The trouble with parental controls on the iPhone is that it doesn't really cater for multiple users of a single device. My kids frequently use and play with my iPhone and there is plenty of music that I'd rather they didn't have access to, and also inoffensive features like email and contacts with which they can wreak havoc. Unfortunately enabling the restrictions when they use it and disabling them again when I want to use it is too much effort. What I really need is an two unlock codes, one for them and one for me. I'm guessing there is a reasonably significant number of parents in the same situation as me.

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ffrankmccaffery

5:40 AM on 25 February, 2010

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@lensmann: Legal cases similar to those launched against Microsoft by Novell and Sun Microsystems amongst others. Are you at all familiar with Antitrust laws?

@Keith: either you have a short memory or your too lazy to use a search engine. It's like reading the thoughts of David Brent going through a nervous breakdown.

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jacko

9:33 AM on 25 February, 2010

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@Tim Sutton; Thanks for the insult, great way to win an argument with sound reasoning and discussion. Well done you.

@Ravmania; You have a good point about bleeding edge technology. However Apple always seem to do a great job in bringing different technologies together and making them work so much better than most other companies manage.

So, what's the point of all that bleeding edge technology if it's not put to best use? Some say all it's all about the software these days anyway, so I guess it depends on how you class leader in technology.

It's amazing how Apple stories bring out so many strong feelings both for and against Apple. I think Apple make some great equipment, including the iPhone 3GS which I own (I hope that's OK Tim?), but Apple as a company do make some odd decisions and are often too blinkered and closed.

If someone else could provide me with the same user experience as Apple do then maybe I'd switch, but right now, no one does, but they seem to be getting closer, so who knows!

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Keithe6e

9:49 AM on 25 February, 2010

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@ffrankmccaffery: either you have a short memory

So you can't prove your point, and just come up with that one. Well done!!.

I can even give other examples of were I have pointed out failing with Apple if you wish, but heh, you know how to use the search.

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lensmann

10:31 AM on 25 February, 2010

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@ffrankmccaffery: Sure, but Apple's share of the smartphone market is what, 18%? That's nowhere near the marketshare you need to be considered a dominant undertaking. Microsoft's share of the relevant product market was four to five times that when Sun launched its ultimately successful antitrust action.

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Terry Love

12:48 PM on 25 February, 2010

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Make me wonder if the "Sports Illustrated" and "Playboy" have paid big money to be there and so can't be removed without financial penalty. Although I did read elsewhere that the swimwear manufacturer's app did re-appear shortly after but without any word or anything.

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DoodyBoy

1:57 PM on 25 February, 2010

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Much as I admire many of Apple's products, I don't have any because I cannot abide any organisation that locks you in the way Apple does. I suppose those who have succumbed manage to justify the restrictions and outlandish costs with the fact that the products are good and they look kinda cool. But do they now feel a little more chilly in their Apple censored utopian state? Restrictions and censorship - brrr! I'm shivering at the thought of where this will all end.

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ffrankmccaffery

7:17 PM on 25 February, 2010

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@lensmann: Are you even making sense to yourself? we are talking about the software market on the iPhone and Apple's control over it. Not it's share of the smartphone market. Anticompetitive practices are anticompetitive practices regardless of the size of your market.

@keith: this should shut you up http://www.trustedreviews.com/software/news/2009/06/17/iPhone-OS-3-0-Launched---Unlocked-Same-Day/comments

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lensmann

8:51 PM on 25 February, 2010

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@ffrankmccaffery: In that case, you'd need to prove that Apple was dominant in the software market on the iPhone, *and* that it was using its control over the App Store to prevent competition with its own products. I guess I must have missed Apple's extensive catalogue of inhouse smut applications which it's seeking to promote. Unlike the many spare parts cases, where the company accused of anticompetitive practices made its own spare parts and used anticompetitive practices to stifle competition, Apple isn't acting to put down competitors here.

The second problem with your argument is that the software market on the iPhone isn't a single market - the different categories of applications fail the substitutability test (unless you're arguing that Wobbly Nipples or whatever is substitutable for Mobile Office or Mobile Safari). You literally have dozens of different relevant markets, each of which is distinct for the purposes of competition law. And please don't tell me you're going to claim the essential facilities doctrine applies here.

Arguably, Apple *does* have dominance in the market for iPhone web-browsers, and if it refuses to let Opera Mini on, Opera might well have a case against them (they have some experience with successful antitrust litigation, and there've been plenty of coded references to that in some of their recent statements). I'd cheer Opera on if that were to happen, of course.

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Keithe6e

9:58 AM on 26 February, 2010

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@ffrankmccaffery: How on Earth does that post prove your point, it's going on about an OS update for the IPhone/IPod Touch, and the only thing I can see that your saying I'm defending to the point of MacHead mania mode, is that I believed the £10 fee for Touch users to upgrade seemed fair, I wish I could upgrade my frigging Vista for £10. Anyway not really sure why I'm bothering as your obviously a troll, proof -> "I have a new bunny in MGS to play with here.".

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ffrankmccaffery

6:47 PM on 28 February, 2010

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@lensmann: Whether Apple promotes it's own apps or those of it's favoured partners at the expense of others - which in this instance happen to be Time Warner and Playboy and something you've conveniently forgotten - they're still breaking anti-competition laws.

In your second paragraph you seem to mistake the various categories within software markets as markets themselves. Do I have to explain that to you too?

Using big words in your posts doesn't make you look clever to anyone especially if you mangle them up as spectacularly as you do. If anything you've managed to make the posts of Keith seem coherent by comparison - which is an impressive achievement in itself.

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lensmann

10:08 PM on 28 February, 2010

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@ffrankmaccaffery: So you seriously think Apple's done this to benefit Playboy and Sports Illustrated? Wow. On your second point, I'm not going to provide you with a primer on competition law. I'd suggest you read the EC notice on the definition of the relevant market for the purposes of competition law.

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Keithe6e

10:37 AM on 1 March, 2010

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@lensmann: Don't bother feeding the Troll, it's a shame in one respect I can see were @ffrankmccaffery is coming from, I certainly don't agree with Apple banning the small guy and leaving the big boys alone, but I don't pretend to be a legal expert so have no comment in that regard.

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lensmann

10:52 PM on 1 March, 2010

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@Keith: You don't know the half of it. Think iBooks looks lovely? There's a story behind it, involving a small developer: see http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/27/AR2010012704221.html

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ffrankmccaffery

4:26 AM on 2 March, 2010

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And so we finally come full circle.

@lensmann: Perhaps Apple allowing Playboy And Time Warner to continue to promote their apps within its store has nothing to do with them making a lot of money?

And I might just read the EC definition of antitrust laws. However I'd recommend you brush up on your basic economics going by the earlier post you made on markets.

@Keith: You do realize that your post supports my case and not that of your new best friend? Thanks anyway, not that I need it ofcourse.

Whack a Mac mole has never been this fun.

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Keithe6e

10:09 AM on 2 March, 2010

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@ffrankmccaffery: You do realize that your post supports my case and not that of your new best friend?

Eh, well, I wonder, "I can see were @ffrankmccaffery is coming from", wow well spotted!! I think you deserve a chufty badge for that one.

Like I've already said, I don't agree with everything Apple does, but then I don't agree with everything Sony, M$(oops, meant Microsoft) etc do. But I don't berate there products and services for no apparent reason either.

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lensmann

2:49 PM on 2 March, 2010

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@ffrankmccaffery: Sure, whatever. Be well and happy.

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