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This is the first in the 24in range to consistently ditch PVA panels in favour of IPS, which is arguably a superior technology.
Nice coincidence. I spent the last few nights racking my brains which 24" display to buy to replace my cheap but disappointing TN-panel BenQ. I was leaning towards the Dell -- mostly because it looks the nicest (but see below), and this review reinforces the notion.It's an odd situation though. The HP LP247w and the U2410 are VERY similar. It's the same panel from LG.Display, the only difference in terms of image quality being the control logic. The Dell apparently is a bit better in that regard. However, LG.Display apparently has some QA problems, and from what I can tell, both the Dell and the HP sometimes have tinting issues, where a white screen has a light touch of different colors in different regions of the display. It's hard to tell how many of the displays are affected by the tinting, I assume it's fairly low, anyway.The dithering problem the review mentions pops up frequently and seems to be a bug in the Dell firmware. It's fixed in the A01 revision, which so far is only shipping in the US. The firmware update somehow got on the net though, and many people have flashed their A00 displays to get rid of the dithering. Flashing a *display* (with a leaked upgrade, no less) is not everyone's cup of tea though, and if you brick your display in the progress your on your own.Here in Germany, both the HP and the Dell are virtually the same price. Dell itself charges a hefty premium (at the moment, with Dell you never know when they suddenly put in on special at a 20% discount). Official Dell re-distributors sell it for about the same price as the HP. There's also a display by Philips, the 240PW9ES, which apparently *also* uses the same LG.Display panel and is quite a bit cheaper, at the cost of having fewer inputs.Looking forward to seeing the display in person, I've had just about enough of this TN display.
Before considering shelling out such a large amount of money, I would strongly suggest browsing the following forum thread which details a significant issue that many of the people who have bought the monitor have suffered; http://forums.overclockers.co....The issue is a colour uniformity problem, with a noticeable pink or green tint towards one of the corners of the monitor. It is not correctable via tweaking settings, as the problem is only apparent in a limited area of the screen, and any change applies to the entire screen. I realise that the above thread is rather long, but it is certainly worth browsing through it and looking at the images people have posted of the tint issues.Interestingly none of the sites that have reviewed the monitor seem to have encountered the tint issue, which suggests that Dell (or other supplier) have been cherry picking the monitors they send out for review.There are a large number of posts on dells own forums, and HardOCP about the issue. The Dell team responded saying that the manufacturer claims that even though the tint is present it is still "within specification tolerances". see: http://en.community.dell.com/f...http://www.hardforums.com/show...There have been some reports that the tinting issue seems to be significantly reduced with the new A01 revisions of the monitor (in some cases). Can you report which revision the one you have for testing is?Anyway, just thought it was worth letting people know before they splashed ~£450
Thanks to morsch and dustofnations, this is why I like the internet, helpful information from intelligent, conscientious sources.I'm not in the market for a new monitor just yet but like to keep an eye out and these kinds of quality issues (and manufacturer's response) trouble me greatly. It's telling what Dell's reaction has been to this seemingly very wide spread issue (arguing the tinting's within tolerances and they won't exchange monitors displaying this issue). In comparison, HP seem to be the one to go for as it's said they will change the screen should it exhibit the tint issue. I'm going by post no. 601 of dustofnation's overclocker's forum thread so don't know if they actually do:http://forums.overclockers.co....Hearing about this problem really puts me off buying anything. I don't want to have to be some kind of genius boning up on every technical issue just so I can argue my point more effectively should I need to deal with defective gear - it's situations like this that you wish consumer legislation would grow some teeth so proper quality control was carried out.
Yes, thanks for bringing up the tinting issues, and pointing out the fact that Dell shrugs it off with a "within manufacturer specifications".Also of course, thanks to Ardjuna for a well written review, but the tinting discussion makes me wonder: Where do you guys at TrustedReviews get your review samples from? With most of the hardware being reviewed here it won't matter, a Nokia N97 is a Nokia N97 is a NokiaN97. However, LCD panel manufacturers apparently continue to struggle with QA issues, so allowing the manufacturer to cherry pick the sample does reduce the value of the review somewhat.(Yes I bought the LP2475w and was less than impressed)
If your TFT shows the tinting issue, send it back within the cooling-off period (I think that's what it's called in the UK?). That's what I'll do; it's why such a thing exists in the first place.
Dell have by far and away the best return policies of all the mid-range display manufacturers. Any kind of fault you describe they effectively offer you a swap from what I've read.I doubt my next screen will be a Dell as they don't have the perfect fit screen for my needs but I wish they did...
@all: Dunno whats the proper technical term for it so I'm gonna describe what I believe might be one of the culprits causing "colour bleeding" that you all describe can happen; I've learned what it seems now ages ago during the rule of CRT monitors from more than one repairman that it's actually useful to leave a newly bought appliance to "settle down" or "warm up" a bit before plugging it to the electricity, especially during winter times. It has something to do with liquid capacitors used in them that can perform out of specified range if they were shaken and/or cooled too much then heated up rapidly. Unless you're using heavy-duty equipment made for harsh environments and components in it carefully selected to withstand that, switching it on too soon after it was transported in the back of your car (and in cold of winter) can cause liquid capacitors to "misalign", or whatever the word is. This could by why some experience this problem, while others don't. Just a thought as I'm pretty sure those type of capacitors are still widely used instead of ceramic (solid?) ones, and please don't be too harsh on my choice of words to describe it, I'm not an engineer ;)
Some interesting and productive comments so far, thanks everyone. No, we didn't notice colour tinting on our review sample, otherwise we would obviously have mentioned it. Our samples come from various sources but in this case it was from Dell direct. As to the A01 firmware, we were aware of it but could not get any official details before publishing. I am currently in communication with Dell about it and will get the details to you as soon as I can - it would be great if it did solve the dithering issue. @Ebbesen:Sorry to hear about the LP2475w - did you end up getting a replacement that worked?@PoisonJam:What kind of screen ARE you looking for, out of interest?
Well in Cnet they talk about the pink issue, i was hoping that manufacturers start producing 2,35:1 cinema widescreens by now instead 16/9 or 16/10 aspect ratio, also 120Hz capables for 3D and so on, appears that manufacturers take a time to start changing their schedules to update what costumers want...
@smodd: I don't think web browsing would work very well on a 2.35:1 screen if they follow the current trend of cutting down 16:10 resolutions.Anyone looking at this bear in mind that screens based on LG's 27" 2560x1440 IPS panel are coming and if they make it sub-£600 they'll be a tempting alternative.
The 27" 2560x1440 displays like the Dell U2711 are extremely attractive, but I don't see them being available for less than 600 GBP. The RRP for the Dell appears to be 1050 USD, so maybe something 800 GPB/900 EUR? That's considering the VAT and the usual price hike we seem to get in Europe. Even if it's available for less from dealers other than Dell, that's a lot more than 600 quid.
Well the current Dell 27" has varied in price between ~£450 and ~£650 (R.R.P. 999 USD) so I think it could potentially happen.
Xiphias if you have such widescreen is more productive cuz you can use half the screen to web-browsing and half to music, exploring windows, excel, word, etc, so this kind of screens increase your space and productivity, and 2560x1440 is still 16/9 aspect ratio, 2,35:1 = something like 2560*1088...at 26" could be a good start...
Perhaps not the ideal thread for a general comment, but it echoes an early comment and is of direct relevance to Dell. I have an XPS1330 and over the last two weeks have had the LED backlit screen changed FOUR times. The original failed, the first replacement (Samsung) had an awful purple tinge which proved impossible to remove. The third screen (RJ) had what appeared to be a manufacturing fault, in that the LED array wasn't pointing in the same direction, so that in the top left and bottom right they leaked light when they were supposed to be black - in fact, it proved to be impossible to see one tone from any angle at all. The fourth screen is fine. The engineers get sealed packs of the parts they need, and are not able to test these. Dell's quality control of parts would appear to be poor (2 out of 3 screens faulty out of the box), and manufacturers would appear to be having problems maintaining standards on LED lines. I have been told that they are looking into the issue, but I know that it will take more than just a grumble from me.
@Ardjuna: I'm holding out for a 22"-24" non-TN with a vertical res that is a worthwhile jump over my 1280x1024 (1200px would be great) that also isn't wide-gamut or too expensive and gets a decent review from a source I trust (TFT Central, Prad, yourselves )... I'd possibly pay up to £500 at a real push for the perfect screen, but less would be better. Perfect colour accuracy isn't necessary, just decent-good would do.NEC's £300 EA231WMi would be ideal if it had a higher vertical res. That would also make it more expensive but I could deal with that. I'm probably not being very realistic but I'll continue to hold out in hope :(
@Pepperrell: Were they by any chance sending you refurbs/returns?
@smodd: The horizontal resolution solely determines what you can fit on screen so you can have exactly the same things side by side on a 2560x1600 screen than you can on a 2560x1440 or 2560x1088 screen, the only difference being is how high they are. If you don't want the extra 500 pixels for your windows you can always use them for something else.Of course, a 2560x1088 screen is only 2.8 megapixels rather than the 3.7 of a 2560x1440 screen so it's going to be a fair bit cheaper, but for two applications side by side buying two 1280x1024 screens will give you virtually the same resolution (2560x1024) for an even cheaper price.A 2560x1088 screen does suit certain games and films but more resolutions will only drive costs higher and I'd rather have IPS in a few different resolutions than lots of choice of resolution but using TN screens.@PoisonJam: Well there's plenty of 24" 1920x1200 screens at £400-450 and Dell still do the 1600x1200 2007FP for £300, although I don't know how it compares in quality (it's IPS but originally came out in 2007).
I bought one of these for photo editing but have been a bit disappointed. The factory calibration was the main selling point but this only applies to the sRGB and AdobeRGB preset modes. The default standard colour mode is miles out. The measured gamma is 1.7 giving a rather washed out look with shadows too light and highlights saturated. Trouble is if you correct this in the graphics card, the other modes are then wrong. The calibrated modes do seem about right if a bit clinical. I have got round it by setting up 3 profiles for the graphics card in ATI Catalyst, one for the calibrated modes, one for the standard mode and one for the custom mode - each with different gamma correction. Although there are lots of adjustments provided in the custom mode, gamma isn't one of them. Otherwise it's OK, I don't have the pink - green tint problem and there are no dead pixels. Compared to my previous monitor overall colour is maybe slightly green although whites and greys look OK. The wider gamut gives brighter reds and greens but similar blues. It's 1920 X 1200 too - not 1080. This is better for photos, a 3:2 format is a better fit and stretches OK to full screen in most cases. I find the touch sensitive buttons erratic and would prefer old fashioned clicky ones but the menus, stand and general build quality are very good.
Xiphias i was refering to the 16/10 aspect ratio you mentioned not the 16/9 27" Dell Screen, so 1920x1200 screen is already obsolete you want it or not, the only way you can get a good screen like that in the future is cuz its aimed to Graphical Designers with low response times Ips screens, i currently own a Samsung XL2370 16/9 and yeah its a TN Panel but i had previously a Premium MVA Panel and the colors look FAR BETTER (96% AbodeRGB according to Cnet), with low response time of less 1 frame per second of lag, no ghost...so such 16/10 old fashion screens belong to profesionals, maybe when they start using the three LED screens with low response times the transition of profesionals to this kind of panel will be a natural choice cuz thay achieve a 113% over AdobeRGB result and therefore moving to the denitive 2,35 aspect ratio will gain their hearts too.
@Xiphias: Care to name a couple that meet my requirements, then? :)Where can I find the older Dell models? I'm sure they were PVA panels, also.
@PoisonJam:So if I am reading your comment correctly, the only thing that the U2410 has that's different to your ideal monitor is its colour gamut? I really wouldn't hold back on this count, most 'oversaturation issues' related to this are easily fixed by changing the colour settings within presets.@Roddy:Why WOULDN'T you use the sRGB or AdobeRGB presets for photo-editing? Unless, that is, your monitor also suffers from the dithering issue ours did...Still no word from Dell on what the situation will be with that firmware update, btw.
@Ardjuna: Probably... but less expensive would be nice, too :pIf I HAD to buy a monitor with my own money today it would still be the 23" NEC... It's significantly cheaper, meaning I could realistically add a second one to my set-up a little while down the line..
@Ardjuna:I generally use the full colour gamut to edit and display my photos locally. I only use the sRGB mode to see what they will look like to others on the web. This worked OK on my previous monitor which is a bit brighter than sRGB but on this one the difference is much greater. Yes, I do get the dithering problem in sRGB mode but it's only noticeable in very dark areas. There's no reason why the gamma and white balance shouldn't be correct in all modes but it isn't. Maybe I didn't fully understand the implications of a wide gamut monitor but I expected contrast and white balance to be the same in all modes, just more saturation in the wide gamut mode. That's pretty much what I have now that I have set up the profiles.
@PoisonJam: I hadn't realise how much the options had shrunk back down since a few months ago, it looks like the last of the old models have all been cleaned out. The only 1920x1200 screen I can see right now is the upcoming HP ZR24w which is 1920x1200 and sRGB. The 1600x1200 2007FP is availible directly from Dell as well as from places like PCBuyIt (who specify the panel and revision). It's a current model not a previous one, they just haven't updated it recently.@Roddy: I guess I'm missing something but why not just have your image editing program show the image in sRGB? If you've measured the gamma you've obviously got a calibrator to profile your monitor with. Oh, and TFT Central gives good measurements of sRGB mode gamuts and calibrations for the monitors they review.@smodd: What? Aspect ratio has got nothing to do with panel type or gamut. I couldn't find any mention of 96% aRGB on CNET but xbitlabs measured it as being standard sRGB. I don't know what Premium PVA panel screen you had but if it was old it may have faded and if it was new it was probably a wide gamut one so I'm not that surprised your new screen has better colours as it's sRGB which 99% of the stuff you're likely using it for was designed for (including web pages, windows, games, DVD and blu-ray).As for LEDs, I understand they shift colour far more over their lifetime than CCFLs which is probably why most professional monitors are sticking to known technology for now. Wide Gamut is something that will eventually happen, now that the technology is here, but right now the situation is just a mess. There are two main problems:1. Wide gamut is being pushed on 8- or 6-bit monitors so instead of adding more colours it's just spreading the colours further apart giving less subtlety to things like skin tones.2. There's nothing to compensate for the above problem for existing images designed for sRGB so instead of the colours intended they get pushed apart so skin tones get obvious red tints and grass becomes far too bright green. To fix number 2 it's a case of software support, some programs like Photoshop already support it and images can specify which gamut they're for but there's still a lot of work to do - for example most media players won't translate to sRGB.To fix the first 10-bit monitors are being developed and coming down in price. Just a couple of days ago NEC announced their new PA241W 10-bit screen for ~£800, significantly cheaper than the previous cheapest £2000 one (The HP Dreamcolour that TR has reviewed). I'm surprised TR hasn't announced it, I felt it was fairly big monitor news. p.s. This cutting edge 10-bit screen is a 1920x1200 24" IPS panel.
@Xiphias: Oh, you actually meant the 2007, I figured you meant to type 2407! :D I had no idea you could still get quality 4:3 screens with such a res. I'm definitely not adverse to 4:3 as the widescreen switch actually caused me headaches - having to spend more just to get higher vertical res and trying to fit 2 on a desk.Going to read some reviews but at that price and width buying 2 over time is realistic. I'd rather have 2x1600 than trying to squeeze 2 documents side-by-side on a 1920 res! Know of any other 4:3 screens of similar res still available to compare with? Thanks!
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