Comments HTC Touch HD - Mobile Phone - review

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OliverLevett

10:35 AM on 24 November, 2008

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I didn't realise things like native copy and paste, support for multitasking, proper exchange server support, support for third party SIPs, a native instant messaging client, and a lot more things i really can't be bothered to waste time typing weren't important to an OS...

Clearly you failed to notice the depth of alterations and innovations made by HTC to the device to make it more friendly to the "dumb phone" market (what the iPhone actually is), with things like a popup after a call asking whether you'd like to save the number to a contact, if the number isn't already linked to a contact, and the ability to use the device as a storage device, or tether it rather than connecting to ActiveSync/WMDC.

There some improvements that could be made to the OS, such as the integration of .NET CF 3.5 (that was released after platform builder for 6.1) instead of version 2.0 of the Framework.

Being able to use a stylus allows you to do things you can't do on an iPhone. Handwriting recognition anyone?

Also, your statement about using an SD card to expand the "288MB of RAM" seems slightly ridiculous, unless you can get a truly outstanding data rate accross the SD interface I think you meant expanding the ROM, which is 512MB rather than the 288MB of RAM.

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nanite2000

11:13 AM on 24 November, 2008

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> Being able to use a stylus allows you to do things you can't do on an iPhone. Handwriting recognition anyone?

I think the iPhone has proved beyond all doubt that a stylus just isn't necessary any more. Handwriting recognition? How 90's... I (and most people in the digital age) can type faster than they can writ anyway.

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FrancisPhillips

12:00 PM on 24 November, 2008

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Its interesting that Jonathan Bray who is a regular Trusted Reviews contributor gave this phone 5 Stars (the maximum) in this months PC Pro. The inconsistency between your reviewers is becoming more and more noticeable.

Whatever anyone says about WM it cant be denied that its connectivity, particularly in the area of syncing is unsurpassed. With most phones you cant sync between a number of computers whereas WM allows syncing with my work server via exchange and syncing between my home PC & Laptop so my diary and contacts are the same on every device I use. Try doing that so easily with any other OS.

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Keithe6e

12:10 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@Oliver, Crikey! the mere mention of the word I-Phone and you've gone ballistic. But to be honest these constant I-Phone haters venting there anger is getting a bit tiresome. If you don't want one, and MMS & Cut'n'Paste is so important, then don't buy one, not too complicated is it?, And the fact of the matter is, if it wasn't for Apple they wouldn't even be the (copycat, catchup) HTC.

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Gordon394

12:41 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@Francis Phillips - Jon Bray isn't with us anymore and is speaking to a different (presumably highly tech-centric) audience now. Consequently I can understand his willingness to give the Touch HD a higher score and I don't see it as inconsistency at all.

That said, he doesn't write from TR these days and we are not responsible for the reviews he writes elsewhere or what his motivations might be.

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Greg17b

12:52 PM on 24 November, 2008

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I change my phone at the end of February, and I would have gone for this without hesitatation if it wasn't for one thing - the fact that Windows Mobile 6.5 will not be available to update onto exsiting Windows Mobile devices.

Having tried the iPhone I'm not a fan, and will therefore be kept waiting until something beter comes out early next year. Fingers crossed...

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FrancisPhillips

1:05 PM on 24 November, 2008

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Gordon

Jon Bray is still shown as a contributor on your 'about us' page.

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AndyVandervell

1:18 PM on 24 November, 2008

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Yes, it's badly in need of updating. Will sort this out soon.

Thanks

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Gordon394

1:18 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@Francis Phillips - the site will be updated in due course.

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adoniteINK

1:19 PM on 24 November, 2008

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Besides the reviews, I really enjoy reading the comments on this site just as much as the comments on Randall kennedy's blog @ infoworld, because you get a lot of very opinionated chaps. Well the review was alright but will rather wait for microsoft to release the new windows mobile OS before i plunge some cash into a brand new phone. Besides i am too broke after buying the M6400(http://www.adoniteink.com/reviews). Need my pockets to recuperate.

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Gordon394

1:55 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@all - I find it hard to justify the purchase of ANY Windows Mobile handset right now (regardless of its merits) in the knowledge Windows Mobile 6.5 will be unveiled in early February at WMC and seemingly won't be available to WM6.1 owners...

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Keldon

3:10 PM on 24 November, 2008

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I'm currently using an O2 Exec PPC and was considering this as a top class upgrade but I was not aware I wouldnt be able to move over to WM 6.5! Thanks for the heads up, guess more waiting for me.

This is a great looking phone though, the interface is slick and im guessing it would make video on the move amazing!

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Michael8

4:35 PM on 24 November, 2008

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I usually enjoy the reviews here but I find this one somewhat lacking. Yes it uses WM 6.1 and everyone hates it, but surely in reviewing a flagship product, that is hotly awaited, a more detailed and balanced review would be needed. No Android, who cares! Android is still not up to scratch from what I've read and probably won't be for a few more months. The fact that I survive quite happily on my antiquated WM 5 surely means there are a lot of other people out there who want a more thorough, non WM bashing, review. Any chance?

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Ed

4:51 PM on 24 November, 2008

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"No Android, who cares! Android is still not up to scratch from what I've read and probably won't be for a few more months."

I've heard this quite a lot recently and it really is missing the point of early criticisms of Android. Yes, Google's mobile operating system isn't perfect yet but it is still far and away better than WM. I would actually rather have the G1 than the Touch HD.

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Michael8

5:21 PM on 24 November, 2008

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Personally I'd rather have a phone (not G1) that ran Android but I'm willing to wait and stick with WM for now and I'd imagine there are many others out there like me. What I think was missed from my prior comment is the lack of a proper review as this one is clearly more interested in complaining about WM whilst throwing in a few positive comments. At the end of the day a reviewer should strive to remain impartial and review a product based on its merits rather than solely talking about the competition, (a necessary part of reviewing but not the be all ...). After all every blog I've read on this product ended with the words, install Android, and as a long time reader I'd like to think TR is a step above that.

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Gordon394

5:24 PM on 24 November, 2008

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Well, we went with "The most telling thing about the Touch HD is that everyone we showed it to asked why Google didn't use this as the phone to launch Android."

So we're a little above it ;)

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Jesper

5:31 PM on 24 November, 2008

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Thank you for a fine and balanced review. As opposed to some of the above comments I don't think it is completely out of touch with the general reviewer consensus.

I also think the wish for Android on the Touch HD is complete logic. Basically what you have is a potentially exciting OS on disappointing hardware, and an ancient OS on an exciting piece of hardware. To me it seems like a no-brainer to combine the two halves.

And why is it that a Windows Mobile (business) phone need to have a nice design? It is not really the users who buy it is it? In reality it is some cost conscious accountant who makes the decision, with a bit of input from the IT division. Not that I am any expert, but this is how I imagine it must work.

And one last thing, where does this rumour that WM 6.1 won't be upgradeable to 6.5 come from? I got the opportunity to ask a PR guy from HTC Denmark about upgrading from 6 to 7, and he said it won't happen, specifically for the touch HD. Ever since 6.5 was revealed I have kept my eyes peeled on any info on upgrading and haven't seen anything, until this comment jumps up out of nowhere. I mean, we haven't even seen anything of it except for some obviously fake screenshots posted last week on this site.

So please, a link or a source, anything to substantiate this claim would be appreciated, since it would certainly kill off any considerations I had of buying the Touch HD.

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lifethroughalens

6:13 PM on 24 November, 2008

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"I would actually rather have the G1 than the Touch HD"

It's official...you're nucking futs!

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Gordon394

6:22 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@Jesper - it came up when Microsoft revealed it won't allow Pocket IE 6 to be installed on any existing WM6.1 handset: http://www.trustedreviews.com/software/news/2008/11/14/Microsoft-Won-t-Offer-New-IE6-Mobile-To-Existing-Owners/p1

PIE 6 is core to Windows Mobile 6.5, so to disallow a browser upgrade but to allow an entire OS update with this browser at its heart would be madness.

I've also had it hinted at by a industry source who doesn't wish to be named, but I can't say anything concrete until February I'm afraid. Hence the general suggestion that it "seemingly won't be available to WM6.1 owners"...

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Gordon394

6:23 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@lifethroughalens - standing up for Ed here. I don't even like the G1 handset, but I'd rather have it with Android than the Touch HD with this software implementation. It's ALL about the software I'm afraid.

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lifethroughalens

6:35 PM on 24 November, 2008

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"standing up for Ed here"

when do you guys ever, not get each other's back on TR?! The G1 is a rubbish handset. Yes, the Android OS is (still in it's infancy) far superior to any WM (in it's twilight!) phone, indeed i've slated WM loads of times on this site. But to say that you'd rather have a G1 over the Touch HD solely because you hate WM is very short sighted....(cutting your nose off to spite your own face, anyone?)

I'll tell you what, I'll happily swap a G1 for your Touch HD ;o)

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Gordon394

6:56 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@lifethroughalens - only if I agree with them ;)

And amusingly I think you're being very shortsighted because the hardware is fixed but the software can change. The G1 - despite being a poor piece of hardware - will now only get better. The Touch HD is now the best it can be and will only fall behind the imminent Windows Mobile 6.5 and all future Android updates.

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lifethroughalens

7:17 PM on 24 November, 2008

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"And amusingly I think you're being very shortsighted because the hardware is fixed but the software can change"

Well, that's kind of my point too, the hardware of the G1 is rubbish. If you want to use an obsolete & ugly handset for your 18 month contract, be my guest. The HD Touch is king of the crop at the moment (hardware) and that a lot more appealing to me to use for 18 months over the G1.

As soon as Android makes it in to any other half-decent spec phone then this argument will be null and void anyway. Luckily for me I don't have to plump for the WM HD (on Orange- YUK!) since my contract ecpires in Feb when there should be some proper Android handsets and WM 6.5 to choose between.

I know it's all in the software, but really....a G1 over the HD? Oh dear, WM isn't *that* bad :)

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Michael8

7:43 PM on 24 November, 2008

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Depending on how deep your pockets are, the hardware can change as often as you want. I'll come clean and admit though that I've bought a Touch HD and am awaiting delivery; having said this though, I am truly convinced that with the occasional envious glances at new OSes and phones in 2009 that this phone will keep me going for the next two years. I've lived off a K-Jam for two years so having a Touch HD is not really a hardship.

At the end of the day people need to remember that the Iphone, for example, is successful because it looks good on top of a great OS. For me, having WM 6.1 doesn't detract from the hardware benefits (and looks) of the phone at least for a couple of years. Does that make me shallow? A little, but I will enjoy the new technology confident that in two years times I'll probably be buying a new HTC with Android as the OS.

By that point, there will be something else to argue over and at the end of the day I want a phone now and am not willing to wait for something better. After all, as with all technology, six months is a short time for something new and fabulous to appear.

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ThaDon

8:00 PM on 24 November, 2008

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Now now kids! Let's all be reasonable about this issue...

We all know that these devices have different hardware specs, and they come with different software installed on them.

We all should know that the hardware capability married with the software engineered for it will deliver the end user experience.

Taking the cue from the current 'popular choice' leader (Apple iPhone), we can see that only so many changes can come through software updates, enabling features that the hardware can support.

As a consumer aware of the money i pay for these things, i tend to see what i can get out of a device not just today, but in the near to not-too-distant future. I look at the cost, i look at the spec sheet, and i look at the potential of the device to either piss me off or keep me happy until a suitable upgrade comes along.

If i look at the iPhone 3G, i can see that may capabilities within the hardware are within my grasp, because all that is required is either a jail-break or an App or an official Apple update to enable the functionality. Ditto with the G1, whether you like how it looks or not.

Can you say the same about the Touch HD?

(1) - 800 X 480 res screen is pretty to look at, might initially be fun to poke at with a stylus, but ultimately doesn't point to what such a powerful-sounding device can do..

(2) - 500+MHz processor, and it can still 'feel sluggish' - that does not point to a good future for the device. progress should make things quicker, smoother, less hassle, less of a pain..

If you are used to doing things that way, fine.. But don't get all up in a huff about people who are yearning for the sort of progress which would bring competition to a seemingly elite market.

(@ lifethroughalens)...

Show me a fully functional windows mobile device that can complete a set task with fewer finger/stylus taps and error correction than either a G1 or an iPhone, and i'll show you progress!

Deal?

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OliverLevett

8:26 PM on 24 November, 2008

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"@Oliver, Crikey! the mere mention of the word I-Phone and you've gone ballistic. But to be honest these constant I-Phone haters venting there anger is getting a bit tiresome. If you don't want one, and MMS & Cut'n'Paste is so important, then don't buy one, not too complicated is it?, And the fact of the matter is, if it wasn't for Apple they wouldn't even be the (copycat, catchup) HTC."

The constant "reviews" comparing brand new hardware, with a functional OS to ageing hardware with the most restricted OS available (yes, my 1992 Amstrad can do more) is "getting tiresome".

"Can you say the same about the Touch HD?"

Undoubtedly yes. Have you ever searched the internet for a windows mobile application? And if you're throwing jail breaking into the same category as official updates, I'd suggest you check out xda-developers, and see what can be done with five year old hardware.

"Show me a fully functional windows mobile device that can complete a set task with fewer finger/stylus taps and error correction than either a G1 or an iPhone, and i'll show you progress!"

Go on a web page, and copy the text to an MMS that you send to multiple contacts. Or an image that you send via bluetooth. Good fight.

"The Touch HD is now the best it can be and will only fall behind the imminent Windows Mobile 6.5 and all future Android updates."

Given the above comment including official apps and jail breaking, WM6.5 will be available for most WM devices (and PIE6 is running on my phone, I need to test it better before actually releasing it).

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lifethroughalens

8:45 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@ThaDon

That's a long point. BTW no one mentioned the (completely different market appealing 'dumb phone') iPhone! It's a simple question of weather you would like to run a G1 or an HD touch for your 18 month contract. My point being that even though I hate WM, I would still rather run the vastly superior Touch HD for my money than the G1.

I only run a phone for 12-18 months before I get bored with the hardware and change hansets. If I wasw being forced to stick with a single hadset for 3 years, then of course I'd want the Android handset. But i'm not, so I dont.

Of track for a minute - Naive hat on, can anyone explain to me why (hardware differences aside) why eventually handsets couldn't be re-flashed, say from WM to android or S60, with a few code tweaks?

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Gnormie

9:05 PM on 24 November, 2008

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"And amusingly I think you're being very shortsighted because the hardware is fixed but the software can change. "

I don't think you're really giving a good argument for you point of view with that comment!

Android is great, the G1 is not. It's not bad just mediocre and as you said the hardware can't change so just how much better can Android get on the G1 specifically before the G1 is stretched to it's limits?

Now the HTC Touch HD has very powerful hardware and a great screen, and since you can't change the hardware I'd prefer to have the best hardware off the line because as you say, software can be changed and even if HTC doesn't I don't have much doubt that someone will come along and put Android on the HTC Touch HD and make it the phone it deserves to be.

I'm no fan of WM 6.1, but to go for a superior OS on inferior hardware when the software is more likely to be the most interchangeable is a little strange.

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Gordon394

9:09 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@Gnormie - disagree enormously, but each to their own ;)

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OliverLevett

9:21 PM on 24 November, 2008

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"HTC Touch HD and make it the phone it deserves to be."

It is the phone it deserves to be! The best hardware and the best OS.

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Robert Elliot

9:55 PM on 24 November, 2008

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What is it with Apple products that seems to bring out so many rabid people? Either insane haters or ludicrous fanboys. Very odd.

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lifethroughalens

9:58 PM on 24 November, 2008

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"The best hardware and the best OS"

That's gone and done it Oliver.

Cat. Pigeons :)

let's have a TR 'what's the best OS' opinion pole (and that doesn't include the closed, locked down, drip fed iPhone OS)

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Gnormie

10:08 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@ Oliver

Going to agree with Gordon here and say 'each to their own', WinMo is superior to other phone OS's in a lot of ways, but for me personally Android is the better choice as I have no need for the more business orientated WinMo features and although the iPhones OS is great I'm sick and tired of Apple charging exorbitant fees for mediocre/sub-par hardware and generally acting even more arrogant then Microsoft.

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lifethroughalens

10:23 PM on 24 November, 2008

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Vivre la Difference!

@Robert Elliot - this 'chat' has nothing to do with the iPhone!

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Robert Elliot

10:36 PM on 24 November, 2008

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@lifethroughalens - go on, count the number of comments that mention it directly or by inference. Starting with the first four posts in the chat. "Nothing to do with the iPhone" indeed.

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FrancisPhillips

11:23 PM on 24 November, 2008

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It's all very well moaning that Android isnt avaiable on Touch HD or saying wait for WM 6.5 in February 2009 but in the end we only have the phones available as they are now. The Touch HD is probably the best WM handset available and has connectivity (Exchange etc) that Android just doesnt have.

If I wait until February then I am sure Gordon and many others will say 'dont buy now as there is something better just round the corner'

On that basis we wont buy anything!

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Gordon394

12:28 AM on 25 November, 2008

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@Francis Phillips, true. You can either wait three months to see what WM 6.5 has in store or sign an 18 month contract. Your choice... (plus, I'd quite life to tell you "Told you so in February ;)

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lifethroughalens

12:48 AM on 25 November, 2008

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Robert Elliot - why don't you read the comments? Obsessed?

This are comments about hardware and software on the Touch HD and and Android handset the G1. Get it now? Move along.

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Jesper

8:14 AM on 25 November, 2008

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Gordon: Thanks for the extra info!

Guess that means no Touch HD for me, a real pity, since it seems like a killer handset.

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Robert Elliot

8:48 AM on 25 November, 2008

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@lifethroughalens - read Oliver Levett's comments again.

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Keithe6e

10:23 AM on 25 November, 2008

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@Oliver: The constant "reviews" comparing brand new hardware, with a functional OS to ageing hardware with the most restricted OS available (yes, my 1992 Amstrad can do more) is "getting tiresome".

Strange, don't remember my 1992 Amstrad being able to make Phone calls, I remember having to use a 1200 baud modem for data. Tape desk for loading etc, oh well maybe I've being living in a different dimension to you.

The really strange thing, you don't get I-Phone user suddenly jumping up and saying the Touch HD is rubbish etc, but the other way round we get the I-Phone haters, why is that, could it be were happy with our phone, and if your really honest with yourself your not that happy with yours. I'm not sure really, but the I-Phone bashing is so weird. Yes, it's got things missing etc. There are a lot of phones out there much more powerful and feature rich, but for thousands of people what it does do, it does well.

Anyway back on topic, I think the Touch HD looks a fantastic piece of kit, and like the OP pointed out a few tweaks, mainly the OS and it looks like a really good contender for the (dare I say it) I-Phone.

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bits

2:17 PM on 25 November, 2008

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As both a Windows Mobile and iPod user I seem to be one of the few out there who can appreciate both sides of the divide for what they are. I think the frustration for many on the WM side is that WM once really was, by some distance, the leader in mobile software, and in recent years it has not stayed ahead in that aspect. The original SPV/Canary when it came out was one of the ugliest phones you could hope to see, but the software it had was streets ahead of anything around.

But over the years WM, like Windows itself, has never really taken the next big step you would have expected a once market leading OS to do. This is a disappointment to all of us who were enjoying its great benefits from the early days on. It is only the likes of XDA developers who are keeping the platform anywhere near the capacity it ought to be at in today's market. When you consider how good a job Microsoft is doing with the Xbox 360 interface updates it's odd that they still seem so behind the times with their WM interface. Thankfully screen shots of the new WM OS look slightly promising, but whether it delivers the genuinely fast, smooth and intuitive interface I would expect from a phone today remains to be seen.

Hardware is also a constant plague of WM devices. Battery life just isn't good enough. Full stop. Even the new generation out this Autumn still fall in the category of average to weak when it comes to this. And never in its entire lifespan has there been a WM device that was capable of coming anywhere close to taking images equal to that of the market leaders of the time. The Touch HD doesn't even include a flash, which is frankly unforgivable for a device that purports to be a multimedia powerhouse, and its 5 megapixel camera produces the usual standard of washed out images that we have come to expect from WM devices. There is hope for the future of WM phones hardware wise though in Samsung. The Omnia has its faults but its actual hardware (including the all important camera) is the most up to scratch we've seen for ages. The new Omnia out in Asia addresses the issue of the lower resolution screen and bumps up the megapixels in the camera, hopefully we will see it over here.

Anyway I could go on but I'd say whatever you think of the review, the actual ratings it gives to the Touch HD are are pretty fair. It's a great looking WM phone with many class leading abilities, but once again the OS and hardware have let us down in just enough departments for even the most avid of us WM fanboys to feel just a bit disappointed and defensive, despite all of the positives it offers.

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lifethroughalens

2:41 PM on 25 November, 2008

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@Robert Elliot - *Sigh* Read all title and all the other posts.

It is weird that Google decided to launch on the G1 handset (that appears to have been designed 2 years ago), especially considering the HD Touch was due to be rolling off the production line at this time and, arguably would have made a much bigger impact in the marketplace than the G1. What's with that decision?

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bits

3:17 PM on 25 November, 2008

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Google, despite its global dominance, still retains a US focus and they might have been thinking that the G1 combined aspects of two of the most popular mobile devices in the US in recent years: the iPhone and the Sidekick, both of which the G1 does vaguely resemble in some respects. Just a guess.

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Ardjuna

3:45 PM on 25 November, 2008

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To address some of the points people are making:

I think the main problem with the iPhone is that Apple could have easily implemented the missing features in its second-gen product, and the fact that they did not upgrade it to offer basics like copy/paste (which competitors have been offering for years) is beyond comprehension.

Meanwhile, WM is an OS that was primarily geared towards business users when it came out and was simply not designed for stylus-less touch interfacing. Yes, it's more feature rich than most, but doesn't look very appealing and for many it's a pain to use.

Android, meanwhile, would in my (relatively uninformed) opinion have the most potential, but due to (I imagine) licensing and marketing agreements is stuck on a handset that's inferior to the likes of the Touch HD.

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Rsaeire

5:11 PM on 25 November, 2008

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@ - Ardjuna. That is a very good assessment of the current situation and I agree with your points too. Andoird seems to be, and will continue to be, a mix between mobile OSX and WM.

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AlmostDone

8:09 PM on 25 November, 2008

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To speed up the HD:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=448707

I've been using the HD for a week now and much prefer over this over the iPhone. I know WinMob is clunky but it does so much more if you're willing to put a little effort in...

Be able to dump 700MB DivX/Xvid and apparently even DVD VOB files without time wasting and hassles of re-encoding/conversions.

7000+ apps avaialbe... I'm using Skyfire browser with a tweak and be able to view any flash websites in its full glory even BBC iPlayer. I can't wait for this browser to get out of beta.

Viewing and editing office docs on the go is great!

If you don't need anything more than what the iPhone can do then great you don't need a HD. :)

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Robert Elliot

9:31 PM on 25 November, 2008

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@lifethroughalens - I did. And then commented on the ones about the iPhone. At which point you told me the entire chat "has nothing to do with the iPhone". When parts of it clearly did.

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lifethroughalens

2:10 AM on 26 November, 2008

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@Robert Elliot - well it doesn't :o)

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lifethroughalens

2:18 AM on 26 November, 2008

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although, as usual it is rapidly becoming that way. Can't anyone *think* about anything else these days. I'm sure that if someone comments that Global Climate change needs addressing, that the conversation would eventually end up being all about how wonderful the iPhone OS is.

Yes, it's the most friendly OS on the market. And in about 17 years time it might be able to do what WM and s60 have been doing for the past 17. (exaggeration)

The iPhone can't be considered a smartphone, so i'll leave it out of any of my comparisons.

I'd still rather have the Touch with WM than the G1. What about you Robert?

:)

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TrustedPhrontis

7:39 AM on 26 November, 2008

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I have had a Tytn and now use a Tytn II. I am going to wait for the Touch HD Pro (with keyboard) and hopefully latest windows version what ever that may be and poss faster CPU.

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Simon

10:56 AM on 26 November, 2008

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AlmostDone, thanks for pointing out Skyfire to me, it's a little gem!

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Ed

12:06 PM on 27 November, 2008

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Although a lot of the key reasons why I dislike the Touch HD compared to the iPhone, I will outline in my video review that will be coming shortly, I just want to mention one thing while it occurs to me:

The reason so many of us in the office think the iPhone is so good is because so many of the shortcomings people mention are simply things that we'd never do on a phone. Yes, copy and paste would be nice but, you know what, I've NEVER found myself in a situation where I've needed it. Likewise, I have NEVER come close to being in a situation where I would like to view and edit an Office document on a phone. These tasks are what we do on our notebooks. They're mobile working tasks and if I'm mobile working, I have a laptop.

A phone should be a good phone first then the rest is just added extras and that's exactly what the iPhone achieves.

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Keithe6e

3:51 PM on 27 November, 2008

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@Ed: Well said, in fact I don't want my I-Phone to be the best in it's class. I would love HPC to be a real contender as this in itself will keep Apple on there toes. I think the same could also be said about MMS, never wanted to use, or when I have it's been a real anti-climax, but Apple haters do appear to use this as some sort of major put down.

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Callum

5:03 PM on 27 November, 2008

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@Ed I disagree with your dismissal of the lack of office on the iphone.I own a windows mobile phone and use the office capability quite alot, for example I do PA (sound) for my local church and am emailed an itinerary for it in word document format. Rather than having to print it out i can just view it then and there while i'm setting up.

I also disagree with many of the comparisons that you have against not just this phone but every windows mobile phone that you review and the iphone. Windows mobile has been around for years now and the user base is phenominal. But the main fact lies in that it started off as an operating system for business devices. wheras the iphone was much more tailor made as a multimedia operating system. Don't get me wrong and think i'm an anti mac person,i think that apple has done a fantastic job with their devices but trying to compare the iphone which is more of a dumbphone in terms of actual fuctionality to any windows mobile phone the difference in capability is staggering.

Think about it this way, say you want to do something on your windows mobilehandset which it didnt come with,usually a quick google search will find an application that will do what you want. If not and you are skilled in coding you can write it yourself. with the iphone you can only use the apps apple decides to let you use or if you write it yourself as far as i'm aware apple still has to checkit (feel free to prove me wrong).

Yes windows mobile may be slower and more clunky than the iphone os but in terms of functionality it may never be beaten. Saying this i still love my windows mobile phone and could never leave windows mobile due to this and find it easy to use as in my opinion it is well layed out. At the moment i'm just saving upand intend to buy the htc touch hd as soon as it is available on o2!

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Ed

5:20 PM on 27 November, 2008

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Callum, how can you disagree with what we do? We do it. The fact that you do other things is by the by.

Also,

"Think about it this way, say you want to do something on your windows mobilehandset which it didnt come with,usually a quick google search will find an application that will do what you want. If not and you are skilled in coding you can write it yourself. with the iphone you can only use the apps apple decides to let you use or if you write it yourself as far as i'm aware apple still has to checkit (feel free to prove me wrong)."

OK, I have to search Google and wade through myriad forum posts to find some app that might do the trick for my windows mobile phone or on the iPhone I can quickly access an easy to use app store. I know which I prefer. Ok, I may not find an app that does what i need but then there's just as much chance of that happening on a WM device.

Which brings me to..

Are you seriously suggesting there will ever be a situation where I think to myself. 'Hmmm, wouldn't it be useful if my phone could do this' then start programming the app ON MY PHONE!? No, I'd do the sensible thing and write it on a computer then upload it. Which is precisely my point. Any serious tasks, I'd do on my notebook.

One final thing. Couldn't they just put the itinerary in the email? I get what you're trying to say but that's a poor example.

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Callum

6:58 PM on 27 November, 2008

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i didnt mean i disagree with what you do just the fact that just because you use your laptop to view documents and not your phone doesnt mean that other people don't.

with the appstore it's quite recent (compared to windows mobile) so there are alot less apps out there, and as we all know apple prevents people from duplicating the core functionality of the iphone, whereas with windows mobile there are many apps duplicating that functionality.

i think that youmight have misunderstood me with the developing i didn't mean that you would develop it on the phone,but what i meant is that as far as i kno there are alot less processes to go through for the development on winmo then on the iphone. although saying this 1 plus point for the iphone is that there are only two types,the original and the 3g version which would make it easier to develop on compared to winmo where there are many different configurations and specifications and software versions which have to be catered for.

with the itinerary it is formated with tables etc to maintain a layout which could be lost when emailed which is why as i understand it it is put in word,also the file can be downloaded allowing you to print and edit easier

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Ed

11:20 PM on 27 November, 2008

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OK, I see what you're saying, Callum.

It seems we're both singing from the same hymn sheet with regards the pros and cons of the two devices/platforms. However, the crux of the matter is that where the slightly backward and downright missing elements of Windows on the PC are easily outweighed by its application support and the fact that using a keyboard and mouse makes up for deficiencies in the interface, on a phone, you can't do anything about the cumbersome interface - it needs to be right in the first place.

Hmmm, I'm tired and I'm beginning to waffle. Essentially, no amount of 'but it can do this' will ever make up for the deficiencies of WM as a touch screen mobile platform.

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DecLarkin

9:51 PM on 11 December, 2008

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It's horses for courses guys. Quit the juvenile point scoring.

My perfect phone purchase will always be "NEXT ONE" when the wish-list stuff on the horizon will be standard, post beta-testing and debugged. Oh yeah and the CPU will be next generation, stronger, faster, quicker etc.

Right now the i-phone I have is the very cool - it's just gorgeous! My kids friends all WANT it and it does have a great finger interface IMHO.

When I have work demands, the SIM goes back in my XDA workhorse and I "xcel" with my word documents, cut & paste and I stylus away {unfortunately I cannot type as fast}.

Having read all the reviews, u-tube etc... The HD looks to me like a decent combination/alternative certainly to carrying two devices.

Sorry guys if having a foot in each camp frustrates you - Now I'll probably be shot at by BOTH sides!!!

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Ileanda

11:56 AM on 12 January, 2009

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I've been shopping for a new work phone, and it's interesting to see that reviews of the Touch HD almost universally criticise it for being resistive rather than capacitative - as everyone seems to assume that fingers are the preferred input. But, when you consider that China will be one of the biggest future world markets, and it's MUCH easier to input Chinese text with a stylus than finger touches, HTC's decision makes much more sense...

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R0b1n

3:18 PM on 6 February, 2009

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I picked up an HTC Touch HD at Christmas to replace an ageing and increasingly unreliable smartphone from around 5 years ago. The HTC falls into that category of things which seems marvellous at first glance but reveal their deeper and deeper inadequacies in use. Unlike some other people I haven't had an issue with battery lfe, but like others I have found this to be a buggy and fragile affair in operation, with some weaknesses that seem positively perverse.

The Touch HD runs Windows Mobile 6.1 with some of HTC's own user interfaces and programs as well. These are neither well integrated nor capable of fine tuning by the user. For example, Touch-Flo 3D is neither intuitive nor reliable, and I think will quickly be discarded. When using the phone, pressing Talk takes you to another screen with an End Call button, which then almost immediately goes dark. This means that unless you have been very quick and tapped the small Keypad button in advance, getting through to anywhere that has a "for option X press 1" dialogue is a complete nightmare of trying to bring up the keypad again without putting the call on hold or cutting the call off. There's a completely spurious (as in unnecessary) sliding bar mechanism for answering calls, which is so useless that HTC have already had to publish a hotfix for it.

But the single most frustrating thing about this whole front end is that IT'S NOT LOCKABLE. Which means you have a large and sensitive touch screen plus a large and sensitive volume control being activated by any and every tiny pressure they get while in your pocket or briefcase or wherever. There weren't any protective cases available for it by the time I left for Syria. HTC think they have made the phone lockable by introducing this as a settings option for the phone's Off button. But like so many things on this machine, it just doesn't work.

So I ditched Touch-Flo 3D and went for a standard Windows Mobile home screen, because there at least you can add a Device Lock to the items on the screen, and this actually does work - most of the time.

Other things that don't function as they should? Something called G-Sensor, which is supposed to work out which way up you're holding the phone and change the screen orientation accordingly. Only for a small number of apps. And there's no way to program a key to swap orientation manually from portrait to landscape and back again.

Tapping a video in a folder starts it running in HTC's own viewer (rather than Windows Media) which will only play in portrait format, so it's tiny. There's no way to make WM the default player, and no way to find, let alone remove HTC's unconvincing alternative.

The Touch comes with a couple of its own on-screen keyboards, which are nothing special, simply being variations of a standard qwerty keyboard. And for these there is a T9 option with auto-completion. Sadly, in fact inexcusably, HTC have taken this as a reason to disable an auto-completion option for anyone else's better keyboard layout, such as fitaly, which I have used for around twelve years and wouldn't swap for anything. I understand that there may be a registry hack to get round this, but why should it be the case? HTC aren't Apple, trying to lock people into their Way of doing things, or are they going that direction?

Files take ages to load, far longer even than on my old iPaq 2210, even though there's a fair chunk of RAM. A soft re-set needs the back of the case to be removed, which is neither ideal nor simple. And it's already locked up terminally once after downloading one of HTC's hotfixes, needing a hard (total) reset together with loss of data. Stable? I don't think so.

So I am very disappointed in this machine, and in HTC who have been specialising in smartphones for some time and really should have had the capacity to iron out the PDA/phone bugs in this one before release. If I'd paid full price for it rather than getting it as an upgrade from Orange, I would be spitting tacks. Not recommended.

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Pred

12:29 PM on 13 February, 2009

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You can lock it. Simply press and hold the end call button. I don't really experience the other problems you have either. Most of youre problems can be solved with small tweaks and sometimes just changing a setting. If I were you i'd look up some information about the HD on the internet. 2 very useful tools i use are Gyrator which allows you to set the G-sensor for specific applications. It works very well. The other is a tweak tool which is basicly all the settings that can be changed combined in a list. I think its called HD tweak. It also allows you to soft reset the device without removing the backpanel and pressing the button.

I have the HD since november and im very pleased with it. Actually not much I dislike about it. Most of the annoyances I do have are caused by windows mobile. But thats not HD specific. Speed is good, battery time is acceptable and touch flow works great in my opinion.

Really the problems you describe are pretty much all software related. Most windows mobile phones have these issues. Look into tweaking and 3rd party programs a bit and most youre problems will be solved.

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